Great topic folks ...


It is only natural for us new immigrants to see small day to day failures and label it as a result of racism. Why it is natural ?
because we know that we look different, we talk different, we are different...and when we are different ...we think we will be treated differently as well.
But is it really that way ?
However hard we may try to Canadianise ourselves, lets face it ...we will always stand out.... and we also tell ourselves internally that we are standing out in the crowd. It is hard to get out of this mode of thinking.

This pattern of thinking is also a reason why we call this a racist society.

Even tho racism is a very subjective topic, lets break it down on two levels.
1. Racism in Govt policy levels...2. Racism on indivudual levels

1. Outwardly the govt policies seem to be all about integrating new immigrants. They let us call this as our own country in 3 years...how many places in the world does that happen? I wonder if there is an equally vibrant desi community in Sweden, Norway, Italy, Spain?...there are some desis there ...and they envy desis in US and canada. I dont know in Canada but here in US, for any Govt project we are required to give 20% of subcontracts to minority and women owned business enterprises. This is just one example, there are many more. So far, i dont see any signs of "systematic racism" at all. The facts seem to be on the contrary.

2. On individual level one may experience some "encounters" which one call label as borderline or outright racist. I have faced it as well. but I also must point out that maybe one out of 1000 interactions i had here had racial slurs to it, and was not that serious.
I happened to do some projects in 4 redneck states in southeast US last year.(Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tenn) I was very scared before going , so was my boss in sending me there. Those guys dont like Yankees from New York let alone a bihari like me coming from new york.... but I can tell you i never had a rough incident there , i met some of the best people in my profession during those projects. I feel the people in Bible belt are really not bad, that area is just demonised in the media a little. And lets keep in mind there are some nut cases everywhere... maybe there are a little more in south , but i couldn't find one during my 6 month stay.

I feel i surely got much better treatment here than what I gave to some african and afghani students in my school in india. But the beauty of those kids was that they took it in the stride and never complained. if i behaved that way with someone "different" in a canadian school , I am sure i'd have never graduated highschool

Thats another reason to say ...mera bharat mahaan

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What can be imagined, can be achieved.

Mishtar saheb, well said.

MI,
Nicely put. It's evident to see that some people will see racism even when it is not present and some others refuse to blame it for their own shortcomings(theres no pleasing these people).
The astonishing part is many of these folk have worked in the ME and even want to go back there. I would like someone to point out how places like Dubai and Saudi are less racist than Canada.

I know that as a visible minority I have access to a lot more funding for my projects than many other canadians. Here my projects are judged on their merit and then if I am a visible minority that fact is factored into the funding decision. Ofcourse all this can be for SHOW too for those who want to believe it is. In India, On the other hand, I had half the chance of getting my proposals looked at by the right people, even if I was prepared to grovel at the feet of a thousand others(who kenw the right people) before doing so.

For those reading between the lines of things like the govts 'real intentions'...are you really helping newcomers by suggesting such theories without any substantial proof apart from the 'voices in your head'? I dont know about the others but I have been through the various govt funded initiatives for visible minorities. You have to be good at what you do and if you are the govt funds really help. In this context are'nt your statements misleading at the least?

Please post proof(in the context of equal emplyment) so we can all see what an evil racist the canadian govt is.

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Quote:

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Orginally posted by Mishtar India

Great topic folks ...


It is only natural for us new immigrants to see small day to day failures and label it as a result of racism. Why it is natural ?
because we know that we look different, we talk different, we are different...and when we are different ...we think we will be treated differently as well.
But is it really that way ?
However hard we may try to Canadianise ourselves, lets face it ...we will always stand out.... and we also tell ourselves internally that we are standing out in the crowd. It is hard to get out of this mode of thinking.

This pattern of thinking is also a reason why we call this a racist society.

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MI and Jake, did you read those articles, I mentioned when I started this thread?

And jake did you ever think why immigrants from the Middle East wants to go back after they get Canadian citizenship? Why they want to abandon this "best" conutry for those " worst" countries even after enjoying "BEST LIVING STANDARDS" for atleast 4 years ( it takes almost 4 years to get Canadian Citizenship) ?

Your expert opinion on "SOUTH AFRICA" ( an example) would not carry any weight if you are expessing that opinion without visiting that country while sitting in Canada.

It is not jake, MI, biomed, Desi Stud, BL or Madrasi who is talking about racism in Canada. Our personal experience can be very good or bad but these articles on racism are from some well known organizations and people. And definitely these articles do carry more weight than our personal views on these isuues.

It is very easy to blame one group of people " written by Jake: It's evident to see that some people will see racism even when it is not present and some others refuse to blame it for their own shortcomings(theres no pleasing these people). ".

In my view you can not judge or should not judge anyone without seeing or meeting in person and further I think no one have given you authority to analyze anyone's shortcomings, leave it to the Immigration Department to decide.

We live in this country and face the system at every step of our life, we have resources to have and share information on wide range of public issues, use those resources and come up with some solid facts on these issues... your or anyone's personal opinion do not carry any wight on public or general issues.

Thanks and regards.
Biomed

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Biomed,
-yes i did read the article, racism does exist in Canada! It exists in India too. Phil Fontaine has put his opinions in words. He has also put a lot of research into writing that paper and I agree with many of his views. Nobody is debating the fact that racism exists. I am debating your suggestion that it is more than what it actually is. e.g:'theories' that the canadian govt has ulterior motives in promoting equal emplyment. That its all for SHOW. You have not given a straight answer as to where you found this info from.

-Why the immigrants want to go back is their own personal choice. I do want to know why they NEED this HORRIBLE Canadas citizenship so badly and are ready to sacrifice 4 yrs to get the same .
Seriously, I do not want to ask why. What I do question is trying to pass of your own personal choice as the truth to prospective immigrants!

-I did not go to south aftrica. I have a lot of family in Dubai and Qatar, Saudi. You forget I am a malayalee . I know that a white/ Arab person gets different perks/ accomodation etc compared to a brown/black colleague. I find it amazing that the people who readily accept that treatment cry racism for every small reason in Canada.

-Our personal opinion is the reason for this forum. Not the views of journalists/personalities. If that were the case I would advice Garvo to put up links to articles on the website only and do away with any pretense of a forum. What do you say?
Our collective personal opinions ARE the reality, isnt it?

-You cannot judge someone even if you meet the person or marry them because you are not that person. It is however the greatest weakness of us mortals and we do it regularly.
The immigration dept cannot analyze a person based on an hrs interview. If you had taken all that you have written on this site for an interview with the same dept, I am sure the immigration dpt would be able to make a better judgement. Lets face it..all of us are constantly analysing each other...remember your comment about how you suspect that some of us are working for consultants? how we think everything in Canada is rosy etc? its just an example I can give you many more.

- Your personal opinions(e.g: the govt's facade of multicultaralism) are worth their weight in gold but those of others who question you are not?
I am still waiting to see where you found the information on the govt nefarious designs in promoting equal opportunity.

-we ARE the public. Like I said if we just post articles there is no need of a forum. People already read newspapers everyday. For those outside we just have to provide the links of the online versions.

-People do not come here only to read articles(though they can be a lauching pad for debates). They come to read how desis live in Canada. They come to see what our personal opinions are. Else there is no point of this forum in duplicating the efforts of national, provincial and community newspapers! If I am MISTAKEN and people come here to read only 'well researched' articles then let me know so I can stop wasting my time.

Again...I am still waiting for the proof (articles are good ) that the canadian govt is only promoting equal opportunity employment for SHOW. Unless ofcourse it was a personal opinion of yours, which like I said...you have every right to. I just want you to tell me if it was a personal opinion or based on facts (e.g: the CSIS or Paul Martin admitted to journalists...etc)

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To All those people crying about "Racism" in Canada - Please visit the United States to know what Systematic Racism is. In Canada, atleast the Govt. encourages You to retain Your ethnic identity. Here in US, Desis feel ashamed of being Desis and a lot of that has to do with Govt. Policies and genral public attitudes towards all things "Un-American".

Thanks

DT

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