"Educated illitrates" 
Nice exit line
Quote:
Orginally posted by YoursTruly
I am not sure about the ‘actual’ reason behind the French govt. decision. But I am sure of one thing: any attempt by the government to restrict the way one should dress, eat and live should be opposed not only by the affected party but also by all those who believe in free speech, equality and liberty. Today the restrictions may be limited to public schools tomorrow these can be generalized to all the public places.
You said it, my friend! The idea here may be to enforce some sort of conformity but a constitutional ban is a ridiculous way of going about it. Even if it does not apply to the private sector.
This is not only about one community, it is a serious breach of liberty in general. Sets a really bad precedent.
I am all for integrating into a new society and trying to understand its culture and viewpoints. What I'm against is having them forced down my throat.
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Are you there?
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 20-10-04 12:35:14
JSethi and others,
If you read through the postings that folks have made, you will see that the French Govt. has not imposed restrictions on any religion. In fact, the Sikhs ("the community to which I do not belog, yet I get sadistic pleasure out of it"
have the chance to protest. This itself speaks of the progressive nature of French society.
As expressed by others, religion is a very private affair. (Ideally) It has no place in public life. In fact, we should appreciate the efforts made by the french govt. to initiate such a change. The Sikhs are quite free to educate their children in Private schools... The French Govt is footing the bill for public education. How come Christians, Jews and ppl following other faiths have accepted this decision ? That's cos, they "UNDERSTAND" the importance of a good public education, coupled with the need to "blind" religiously.
Ppl who have been advocating the cause for Canadian tolerance for "religions".. Umm isnt this the same Society that torelated the Khalistani's in the 1980's.. ( a philosophy that developed due to "religion" ).. Isnt this the same society that led to the Air India bombing ? I know this is a taboo subject but what I am trying to explain here is that, young minds are impressionable. They should not be impressed abt ppl's religion's and religious belief's at a very early age. That leads to indoctrination. The main emphasis was to control the spread of Islamic beliefs in French society. Rather than target against one religion, it was implemented globally ! Muslims complained and raised a hue and cry, but the benefit s outwieghed the inconveniences.. Only the Sikhs thought it to be different.
What really amazed me was their temerity to request the Indian Govt. to intervene on their behalf !!!
Caveat :- Khalistani's are terrorists, Sikhs are not..(least someone accuse me of that)
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This question is arising so many times,” Why Sikhs are asking for help from Indian govt.”
Simple, Because India is their original homeland. Had Sikhs got there own state in 1947, then the NRI Sikhs would have ask for help from the Sikh state home land. What is this fuss all about asking for help from India .Didn’t when problems arise for the white farmers in Zimbabwe , the UK & other western countries try to reason with the Govt. their.
It is different story that Nehru & Gandhi did make fool of Master Tara Singh( Akali leader at that time) in 1947 by falsely promise something defined in Anandpur resolution., Otherwise Sikhs would have got their separate state way back. But Akalis are super stupid & now make hue cry of anandpur resolution, which is good for nothing now. Anyway history is history. Opportunity lost is lost until some one like Hindu radical Narinder Modi become Prime minister of India.
Anyway for Sikhs India is their homeland.. After all Congress is in power in Punjab. Also Akalis have good ties with BJP. I am sure majority community do understand that this community is looking forward to work for the betterment of the country so as to make India as super economic power.
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infocan
Quote:
Orginally posted by Ottawa_Nerd
JSethi and others,
If you read through the postings that folks have made, you will see that the French Govt. has not imposed restrictions on any religion. In fact, the Sikhs ("the community to which I do not belog, yet I get sadistic pleasure out of it"
Who said french are not progressive.... But sadly, the protest that french govt allowed, few of our, so called, fellow indians could not digest.
I am not a sikh myself but that does not stop me in calling an unfair method as unfair....
Quote:
As expressed by others, religion is a very private affair. (Ideally) It has no place in public life.
They have just banned it from public schools and not from buses, trains, areoplanes,public offices, malls, cinemas..... so it remains very much a part of the public life.
Quote:
How come Christians, Jews and ppl following other faiths have accepted this decision ? That's cos, they "UNDERSTAND" the importance of a good public education, coupled with the need to "blind" religiously.
You should read newspapers more often .... There have been innumerable protests by muslims, jews etc, I can send you some clippings because I think we in europe are given more balanced view of the world unlike u guys in USA and Canada who are fed on biased media, here I speak from first hand experience of both canada and europe ..... And, moreover, if you had read this thread carefully, you would have noticed someone actually wrote that only 17 sikhs are involved in the filing of this case. So, by and large it has been accepted.
Quote:
What really amazed me was their temerity to request the Indian Govt. to intervene on their behalf
When iraq invaded kuwait, all indians who were staying there for years and years, a large population being non-sikh, were helped back to the country with the govt intervention.
Japanese did appeal to their govt when they were kidnapped in iraq, philipinos did, americans do, some indians have recently been rescued after the govt intervened, even nepal helped its citizens to be rescued in iraq... Now, all these were not army people, they were contractors who chose to go there to make a fast buck.
The feeling that I get here is that actually you care a damn about what french are doing or who is getting affected, its just this hatred you have about sikhs which you tend to take out on forums like this..... You said it right upbringing matters a lot......
Actually its good for you that such religious symbols are allowed because then you know exactly whom to hate and whom to like......
Very sad.....
Anyway, I know my comments have just added fuel to fire but could not resist putting them in......
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Cheers,
JSethi
"When they came for the gypsies, I did not speak, for I am not a gypsy. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak, because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for the Catholics, I did not speak, for I am not a Catholic. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak."
-On the Wall at the Holocaust Museum in Washington
Since a lot of prejudiced, biased and ad homineum ideas have crept into this thread, let me try to bring the core issues in perspective.
1. French government (the erstwhile champion of liberty) decides to ban conspicuous religious symbols from the realm of public schools.
2. The case of Sikhs and their articles of faith, representing a tiny minority of 7000 or so in France, was not even considered while the French authorities were considering this change.
3. A few months before the scheduled implementation the French government became aware that the Sikhs would be impacted by it but decided to ignore their plight in any case.
4. The Sikhs, who have faced numerous such cases of discrimination in the Western world, and emerged successfully after defending their rights to practice their religion uninhibitedly, express their resentment with these changes.
5. Muslims, Jews and members of other faiths also express their concerns on this regressive step by the French. These communities organize numerous protests worldwide and in France.
6. One of such protests is covered by the tabloid Time of India with a flashy headline 'Angry Sikhs sue French government”. This is a despicable way of representing someone whose human rights have been violated. But that still is something the Indian press has to learn.
7. As a community with strong ties to India and history of making most sacrifices for protecting the interests of India, the Sikhs appealed to the government of India for help. Indeed, such pleas for help were made to the government of UK, Canada and US-where sizable number of Sikhs live- amongst others.
8. And for those carping the multicultural nature of the Canadian society need to go back only fifty years when people of non-white colors were not even allowed immigration to Canada, leave aside the possibilities of getting any other type of accommodation. If Canada were to implement something like this, would they like living in a monolithic society? Rather would they be even allowed to immigrate to a white, Christian nation where brown South Asians of Hindu faith are regarded as second rated? Think about that. What the French are doing is a step in that direction.
9. And while the Sikh Turban is becoming a problem for the French (and shall I say a section of Indians), they have conveniently forgotten the role played by the Sikhs during the Second World War. Indeed, over 80,000 Sikh soldiers died in Europe fighting the Nazis. Thousands of Sikhs were buried in France. So it's a very special French way of saying thanks to the Sikhs: Thousands of you fought for us and died while protecting our freedome and we are going to honour you fifty years later by taking away the source of your spiritual and temporal strength- the right to practice your religion.
10. And if the Sikhs protest over the violation of their rights, some fellow Indians take sadistic pleasure in this! That tells a lot about their attitude and psychological orientation, but that’s for them to work on. However, the Schadenfreude exhibited by some of the posters leaves me concerned that they call themselves Indian.
11. Finally, my apologies for any offence caused to anyone.
There was a documentary On the Sikh movement on the HISTORY CHANNEL onSunday.
Covered a lot from the midieval times to Storming of the Golden temple.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
