Posted on: 26-07-11 09:49:55
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
Quote:yes, it isa list of ontario public sector workers making > $100K a year in basic pay.
Originally posted by dan
Is this sunshine list of salaries dominated by public sector workers ?
What it doesn't show are the other hundreds of public sector workers making well over $100K in overtime and other benefits.
most people (desi and local Canadian) do not realize exactly how well paid the public sector workers are.
the present value of their fully guarnateed and indexed pensions are worth millions.
Quote:yes this list is only for public sector.
If so, that is pathetic. The list mentioned above is also quite shocking. Are these jobs reserved for the white majority ?
we don't care what private organizations pay, right?
as long as the salaries are coming out of the profits of the company and not piggybacking on govt. handouts like the auto companies.
actually to be correct the govt didn't bail out the auto companies. it bailed out the unions. but that's another topic.
well then start looking for jobs in the public sector if that is how it is. Join them ! Get in.
Quote:
Originally posted by dan
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
Quote:yes, it isa list of ontario public sector workers making > $100K a year in basic pay.
Originally posted by dan
Is this sunshine list of salaries dominated by public sector workers ?
What it doesn't show are the other hundreds of public sector workers making well over $100K in overtime and other benefits.
most people (desi and local Canadian) do not realize exactly how well paid the public sector workers are.
the present value of their fully guarnateed and indexed pensions are worth millions.
Quote:yes this list is only for public sector.
If so, that is pathetic. The list mentioned above is also quite shocking. Are these jobs reserved for the white majority ?
we don't care what private organizations pay, right?
as long as the salaries are coming out of the profits of the company and not piggybacking on govt. handouts like the auto companies.
actually to be correct the govt didn't bail out the auto companies. it bailed out the unions. but that's another topic.
well then start looking for jobs in the public sector if that is how it is. Join them ! Get in.
Agree, Dan.
I guess, there's no need to crib about it and complaint. If you have a capability and skills required you can apply for these jobs too. What is stopping someone to do that. Gosh! Such a hue and cry.
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
Quote:sure, wouldn't that be the perfect world!
Originally posted by Nightmare
Hmm… Lisa wants CP guys to get “what others get”. It is little ironical. Rather it should be other way round. Others should get what CP workers get.
but that's what got countries like Greece and Spain in trouble.
everybody wants everything.
these days it is not practical to have fully funded guaranteed indexed pensions for everybody.
CPP ran into trouble many years ago and they partially fixed it only by increasing contributions quite a bit.
the only reason public sector is able to do this is because the govt. simply taxes the rest of the working population to pay for public sector.
that is why public sector pensions are never underfunded in Canada unlike the US.
Quote:agreed but i have no hopes of that happening.
I hope if Harpo or Lisa has any integrity or honesty, then they would also introduce a bill which reforms MP pension. For each dollar that MP contributes, state contributes 3 dollars.
the conservative party didn't create this gravy train.
we haven't had consistent conservative govt. for over 40 years now.
we only had 2 terms of Mulroney and those were days of deep fiscal problems that he inherited from Trudeau.
if you think federal politicians are bad look at the provincial public sector in Ontario.
i believe (i'm sure I've seen some stats around this) that Ontario public sector workers are amongst the best paid in all of north america.
this includes police, health care, city workers etc.
a city of Toronto janitor has a starting pay of $48K, plus vacation, sick time, and of course the juicy pensions.
once you consider the beaurcracies like OPG, etc. the packages are outrageous.
Indeed I have not yet heard about such outrageous packages being offered even in the US, where they always used to say that public sector jobs were poorly paid. Something strange about Canada.
Do you think the IT guys are getting these packages in Canada ? No idea but really these Ontario packages seem to be crazy.
I dont see a single minority on this list though.
Quote:yes indeed there is.
Indeed I have not yet heard about such outrageous packages being offered even in the US, where they always used to say that public sector jobs were poorly paid. Something strange about Canada.
those poor public sector workers in the US are being thrown under the bus because of the debt crisis.
in reality public sector workers in the US are amongst the worst paid in the developed world.
a typical public school teacher in the US gets paid like shit.
compare that with what teachers in Ontario make.
I'm sure the US teachers do not know that. if they did we would have an exodus across the border.
ditto for cops and firemen.
Canada is perhaps different because of the socialist and unionized nature.
also because Canadians do not complain about high taxes.
that in turn is because of the huge immigrant community.
many of the immigrant community is happy to escape their poor countries back like from Africa or China or eastern europe.
they are just happy to be here.
so without complaining they pay taxes upon taxes upon taxes.
the government and the public sector is happy to take their money and keep paying themselves fat salaries and juicy penions.
Quote:i don't know about IT but I would say almost certainly they don't get paid that well.
Do you think the IT guys are getting these packages in Canada ? No idea but really these Ontario packages seem to be crazy.
unless you are a top level executive in IT in the private sector.
and we all see what is happening to RIM....so even if you work for a good company nothing is secure.
on the other hand if you work as a clerk in the public sector your job is secure.
i can almost guarnatee you that a public sector book keeper or junior IT programmer is compensated better than a private sector IT manager.
the base salary comparison is useless.
you need to monetize the vacation, sick days, sabbaticals, study leaves and all other hundreds of ways and means by which they can take time off from work.
and if that's not enough, add in the pension benefits.
i can guarantee you that the present value of a public sector pension such as teachers, health care or federal govt. is in the range of a million $ if not more.
just try to buy for yourself a guaranteed, indexed, lifetime annuity with survivor benefit that covers 70% of your highest salary and it will knock the daylights out of you.
private sector workers and busineses in this country are being robbed and bled to support these fat cats.
Who says Public Sector jobs are a safe bet? Something to ponder about:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1012016--nearly-700-federal-job-cuts-coming-at-public-works-unions
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
Quote:yes indeed there is.
Indeed I have not yet heard about such outrageous packages being offered even in the US, where they always used to say that public sector jobs were poorly paid. Something strange about Canada.
those poor public sector workers in the US are being thrown under the bus because of the debt crisis.
in reality public sector workers in the US are amongst the worst paid in the developed world.
a typical public school teacher in the US gets paid like shit.
compare that with what teachers in Ontario make.
I'm sure the US teachers do not know that. if they did we would have an exodus across the border.
ditto for cops and firemen.
Canada is perhaps different because of the socialist and unionized nature.
also because Canadians do not complain about high taxes.
that in turn is because of the huge immigrant community.
many of the immigrant community is happy to escape their poor countries back like from Africa or China or eastern europe.
they are just happy to be here.
so without complaining they pay taxes upon taxes upon taxes.
the government and the public sector is happy to take their money and keep paying themselves fat salaries and juicy penions.
Quote:i don't know about IT but I would say almost certainly they don't get paid that well.
Do you think the IT guys are getting these packages in Canada ? No idea but really these Ontario packages seem to be crazy.
unless you are a top level executive in IT in the private sector.
and we all see what is happening to RIM....so even if you work for a good company nothing is secure.
on the other hand if you work as a clerk in the public sector your job is secure.
i can almost guarnatee you that a public sector book keeper or junior IT programmer is compensated better than a private sector IT manager.
the base salary comparison is useless.
you need to monetize the vacation, sick days, sabbaticals, study leaves and all other hundreds of ways and means by which they can take time off from work.
and if that's not enough, add in the pension benefits.
i can guarantee you that the present value of a public sector pension such as teachers, health care or federal govt. is in the range of a million $ if not more.
just try to buy for yourself a guaranteed, indexed, lifetime annuity with survivor benefit that covers 70% of your highest salary and it will knock the daylights out of you.
private sector workers and busineses in this country are being robbed and bled to support these fat cats.
The pensions and other benefits you mentioned are amazing as well. Indexed pensions cost a lot. I can see now why the US system is so different. What you mentioned about the public sector there is very true, mainly because the whole US economy runs through the private sector. It is almost the opposite in Canada.
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
Quote:yes indeed there is.
Indeed I have not yet heard about such outrageous packages being offered even in the US, where they always used to say that public sector jobs were poorly paid. Something strange about Canada.
those poor public sector workers in the US are being thrown under the bus because of the debt crisis.
in reality public sector workers in the US are amongst the worst paid in the developed world.
a typical public school teacher in the US gets paid like shit.
compare that with what teachers in Ontario make.
I'm sure the US teachers do not know that. if they did we would have an exodus across the border.
ditto for cops and firemen.
Canada is perhaps different because of the socialist and unionized nature.
also because Canadians do not complain about high taxes.
that in turn is because of the huge immigrant community.
many of the immigrant community is happy to escape their poor countries back like from Africa or China or eastern europe.
they are just happy to be here.
so without complaining they pay taxes upon taxes upon taxes.
the government and the public sector is happy to take their money and keep paying themselves fat salaries and juicy penions.
Quote:i don't know about IT but I would say almost certainly they don't get paid that well.
Do you think the IT guys are getting these packages in Canada ? No idea but really these Ontario packages seem to be crazy.
unless you are a top level executive in IT in the private sector.
and we all see what is happening to RIM....so even if you work for a good company nothing is secure.
on the other hand if you work as a clerk in the public sector your job is secure.
i can almost guarnatee you that a public sector book keeper or junior IT programmer is compensated better than a private sector IT manager.
the base salary comparison is useless.
you need to monetize the vacation, sick days, sabbaticals, study leaves and all other hundreds of ways and means by which they can take time off from work.
and if that's not enough, add in the pension benefits.
i can guarantee you that the present value of a public sector pension such as teachers, health care or federal govt. is in the range of a million $ if not more.
just try to buy for yourself a guaranteed, indexed, lifetime annuity with survivor benefit that covers 70% of your highest salary and it will knock the daylights out of you.
private sector workers and busineses in this country are being robbed and bled to support these fat cats.
And that is why as well small and medium sized businesses in Canada are always struggling to survive because the private sector is just paying to support these fat cats. It is all making sense now. Unlike other developed countries where these companies are the main driver e.g Germany, Canada seems to be in another world with these public sector executives.
I guess the only way is to join them if possible.
