A star immigrant gives up on Canada
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Posted on: 10-06-05 13:35:10
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
I think it is generalisations which work more than specialisations. Look at the work force in Canada - it can be generally said that the higher up positions are generally held by the 'whites' than the coloured ones. I would not like to go into to percentages since I do not want to be snipped at - but would you not agree that the proportion of higher positions held by whites as compared to coloured is much much higher than the proportion of populations of whites to that of coloured?
Is is not generally found that NBA has more blacks than whites - way out of proportion of the population of whites to blacks?
Is is not generally found that most whites do not know more than two languages/dialects but most Asians know more than two?
Is it not generally found (and generally accepted) that whites are more vocal in expressing 'thank you's', 'sorry's' and 'awesome' than Asians? And therefore Generally, local organisations like to deal more with whites than coloured because of their 'soft skills' as advocated by you and others. Isn't it the same reason that when I am applying for a job, I am considered an Indian first without giving me a chance to present and surprise them with my manners, English and 'soft skills'?
Is it not generally found that Africans are more physically strong and taller than people from other parts of the world?
Is it not generally found that a Gujrati conceived and born in Africa is not as physically strong and well build as a 'black' in Africa? Isn't that something to do with race?
Isn't is generally recognised that Italians are best at construction, furniture and shoe manufacturing - that must have something to do with the race because even in Canada, they are bigshots in construction and furniture industry (though many of them are born and brought up here)? Isn't it due to this reason the general public is willing to generally pay a higher price for Italian furniture than furniture from other parts of the world?
Chandresh
And desis wonder when others wonder how they(desis) manage to speak English...or ask desis about snake charmers, turbans etc.
Chandresh, a reasonably well-read person can take apart your generalisations and prove that it has nothing to do with race but various factors including past histoy, economics, migration trends etc.
e.g: higher amount of whites in higher positions...the black race came out of slavery only recently, even more recent was an end to state sanctioned racism...ofcourse they are still suffering from the effects of that, theres a reason many of them are economically backward...the same reason why their proportion in greater in prisons...the ones who HAVE the ability/luck etc to come out of the same have.
Likewise with western food habits...the average size of people change...there was a study about chinese(in urban ereas) not only getting more obese but also taller.
etc,etc,etc
Well,well like I have said beforew, one must keep educating oneself
Maybe this will help in education
http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/
I strongly suggest a read of the link
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A truly derailed thread this is!
It started off on 19 Apr sympathising with a doctor's departure and a mont and a half later, it is still alive but discussing what is "generalizing" and "race"!!
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Diogenes
====================
The Cynic
Jake
Generalisations keep changing over a period of time - it has been proven in the history. So what is general today, may not be true 10-20-50 years from now. But what I am trying to say it that it is generalisations on which the world works - and should keep doing so - to keep a good balance, though not necessarily making everyone very happy in the society. As the generalisations change, so does the world.
Chandresh
PS - most of the phrases/muhavare etc are made on generalisations and have continued for ages. Like birds of same feathers........ (and in modern day's context - something that I heard in a moview, I think it was 'First Wives' Club' - 'once they go black, they never come back'. which DEFINITELY has got everything to do with race )
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
Quote:
Orginally posted by crenshaw
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
snip
american football or basketball....maybe the whites will make a comeback once they figure out what it takes to compete with the blacks.
Talk about making a comeback.........Steve Nash (a Canadian from BC...and white, was MVP in the NBA this year).
Stereotypes and generalizations just don't work..........that's actually something thats held India back in the past.
Yes, thats what I meant. moreover Nash is a guard. They really dont need to be big or strong or both. He is 6 ft if I am not wrong. So is Iiverson.
short by NBA standards.
Nash is a great player both as an individual and as a team player, but up against a great defensive team like spurs, turned out short. Defense is the key. Those massive african americans are basically the key.
Maybe I should have said what chandresh said, a shorter and quicker guy would be good as a guard or fast drives down the lane, but big huge guys like Tim Duncan, Shaq, Rasheed and Ben Wallace etc would be great at defense, rebounding and converting (I dont know the right term for those shots that shaq takes). Players like mike jordan can do it all.
Still generally speaking the nba first teams are dominated by black players.
And as jake said , the intensity of black players would be difficult for any of us to equal. Which again is a form of generalization as the reason for that is the way they grow up.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
Quote:
Orginally posted by DiogenestheCynic
A truly derailed thread this is!
It started off on 19 Apr sympathising with a doctor's departure and a mont and a half later, it is still alive but discussing what is "generalizing" and "race"!!
I am really getting confused by my own arguements. Am i arguing in favor of generalization or specialization.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
And as jake said , the intensity of black players would be difficult for any of us to equal. Which again is a form of generalization as the reason for that is the way they grow up.
just to clarify...I meant the intensity to get out of their economic conditions(which are reflected in their environment).
Also there ere more whites indicted in white-collar crimes...not because blacks do not indulge in such crimes...but because many are not in a position to do so...due to history of slavery,racism etc etc.
About the NBA being predominantly black...true, a high protein diet over generations along with genetic disposition CAN result in physically bigger people. Couple this with economic adversity and a comparetively easier(for them) way to climb...and you can get an explanation. I wonder igf mike tyson OR mohammed ali would be much of boxers if they were reared up in privileged conditions.
Similarly, I dont think Chandresh ever had the desire or the oppportunity to be a boxer(I could be wrong
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Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
But what I am trying to say it that it is generalisations on which the world works - and should keep doing so - to keep a good balance, though not necessarily making everyone very happy in the society.
So how does society change then?
Anyway...here is what the earlier site was about
http://www.racematters.org/blackpeopleloveus.htm
White men can't jump (to assumptions about race)
Ralph De La Cruz
December 12, 2002
Don't you just love how Jews are so thrifty with their money?
Those fiery Cubans are absolutely adorable when they lose their tempers.
Isn't it cute when white people try to dance?
And gays. They have such natural talent for decorating.
Of course, I'm just mocking these insidious stereotypes.
Or rather, just wondering.
The Web site, blackpeopleloveus.com, makes you do that kind of wondering.
The home page tells surfers: \"We are well-liked by Black people so we're psyched (since lots of Black people don't like lots of White people)!! We thought it'd be cool to honor our exceptional status with a ROCKIN' domain name and a killer website!!\"
Below that are photos of the site's supposed proprietors, a white couple named Sally and Johnny. And then, testimonials from black friends.
\"Sally's always saying: 'You go girl!' while 'raising the roof' to mainstream hip-hop tracks at cheesy bars,\" says one. \"That's fun! I relate to that.\"
Another reads, \"Sally and Johnny give me ample opportunities to translate rap lyrics, reggae songs, and/or street slang!\"
At first, I found it rude and insulting, but remained intrigued.
It wasn't until I clicked on the \"Hanging Out\" link that the intent really became clear.
The page opens with a photo of Sally and Johnny, goofy expressions on their faces, high-fiving each other. \"Bam!! This is how we do it!\" the caption says.
That's followed with a picture of Sally playing Pictionary. Her partner has drawn a picture of Africa, and Sally's totally baffled. And then there's Johnny, playing hangman and, despite getting the R, C, I, S, and M, not being able to figure out the solution to R_CISM.
It becomes more clear this is parody, not put-down.
The Web site is the creation of a white, twentysomething sister and brother, Chelsea and Jonah Peretti.
\"Because this site is funny, we knew it would reach people who might not ordinarily think about these issues,\" Jonah Peretti told the New York Times. \"We wanted to promote dialogue, to get people talking about these issues.\"
It works. I challenge anyone to visit the site and leave without questioning the stereotypes each of us carries.
To understand the difficult emotions that the Web site inspires, all you have to do is go to the \"Your Letters\" section.
\"After looking at your website, I at first was appalled by the outlandish rhetoric that was used throughout it,\" wrote Keith RC II, who identifies himself as a black student at the University of Virginia. \"However, the more I looked at the site the more I was conflicted in my views. At first glance this seems like a mockery of the black culture and made by ignorant people, however, it also seems like a mockery of white culture and its ignorance and constant quest to be 'hip.'
\"So as of now, I am leaning towards the satire aspect of this website and the ignorance that it is exploiting. I commend the creator for making this site, however it would have been nice to know who actually are the creators, because I don't believe it is just Sally and Johnny, rather a collaboration of them and some black people.\"
Sally and Johnny are indeed fictional characters portrayed by friends of the Perettis. The two creators' father is Jewish and their mother Italian. When they were mere tykes, their parents divorced. Their father married a black woman, infusing the two with a totally new cultural awareness.
\"There is a mistake that people have made about the division of labor,\" Peretti says. \"It's like racism is something only people of color can think about. Feminism is something only women can think about.\"
We all need to discuss bigotry and stereotypes more openly.
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