Islam: A German's View.
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Posted on: 11-04-10 14:15:19
Icecube - please tell me :
a. Do you support forcible conversion as rendered by Islamists ? namely the beheading of a Sikh in Pakistan as a recent example ?
b. Do you support Islamization of the whole world or as much as possible ?
c. Do you believe that no believers in Allah are Kafirs be them be Christians , Hindus , Sikhs , Jews and that these people do not deserve to live with head held high ?
d. Would you wish to see the whole world under the umbrella of Islam or differnt pockets practicing what ever they believe in ?
e. Do you feel that people who do idol worship have their own right to do so and you accept that .... or do you denounce such people ?
f. Do you feel that countries who oppose Islamic terrorism like the US , Canada & India should be brought to their knees by Islam ?
I would appreciate if you could answer the above as you feel it to be . Thanks .
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Fido.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fido
Hi Nightmare ,
Could you please let me know some link / information to back your statement - Muslims comprise a majority of the Engineers / Doctors coming abroad ??
Other wise I would assume that like other thought of yours , this also is a passing nightmare and will pass away soon ....
Do you know that the education and living standards of Muslims do not come any where close to others in India ...... ?? And thats due to their own followings of multiplying in numbers caring less for the quality of life they can give to their kids .....
I wonder where do you draw your ridiculous conclusions like this and Muslims controlling India and stuff like that ..... Please don't be over worried ... this is not the reality .... and would never be .....
China is a production giant of the world but not an outsourcing one ... Do you have informaiton to the contrary or is again a baseless statement ?
I think we are digressing so I m getting back to the original topic in my next post .
Hmm Cuaght me on wrong foot. What I meant was that Muslims have proportionate number of Engineers and Doctors. You may not find them in significant number in state universities but they have their own universities like Jamia Milia and other private colleges from which they graduate.
Further, we are not comparing living or education standard here, though there also I do not agree with your views (Muslims from South India, Gujarat and Maharashtra and J & K have very good edu and living standards, Only in North India they are backward).
What I am trying to point out is that they have total control over politics in India. With 100 seats in their kitty, they can and do dictate terms to the party in power. NO POLITICAL PARTY CAN COME TO POWER WITHOUT SUPPORT OF MUSLIMS. PERIOD. I do not know how you term the facts as ridiculous.
In next 4 decades, Europe and Canada will have same fate as India.
As regards India being back office to world, yes , I agree. However, fact remains that China is more powerful and commanding. They are developing human resource at rapid pace . They have created whole villages where English is being taught with Western accent. In a decade they will overtake India. That is the reason Infy and Wipro are in China.
The fact is - yes since Indian electorate depends on numbers and Muslims are a teeming population , they do have an impact on elections ....
But it is foolhardy to think that they control India .... Indian politicians or leaders give them a raw deal .... Use them and then throw them ....
States that you have named comprise a minuscule of Muslim numbers in N India where I must point out they are more than occupied in doing menial jobs because of their very low standards of life & livelihood ... This is the fact ... no periods though 
Lets not contemplate & extrapolate future for even beggars can wish to ride horses .... Lets discuss in context of today as things are .....
Arre yaar ab tak woh Kashmir to le nahin paaye , tum pure Bharat kee baat kar rahe ho ??
BTW , China lacks a major skill needed for outsourcing and thats English !! As I said lets talk about present and not future for who knows what may happen in future .
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Fido.
Icecube - please tell me :
a. Do you support forcible conversion as rendered by Islamists ? namely the beheading of a Sikh in Pakistan as a recent example ?
b. Do you support Islamization of the whole world or as much as possible ?
c. Do you believe that no believers in Allah are Kafirs be them be Christians , Hindus , Sikhs , Jews and that these people do not deserve to live with head held high ?
d. Would you wish to see the whole world under the umbrella of Islam or differnt pockets practicing what ever they believe in ?
e. Do you feel that people who do idol worship have their own right to do so and you accept that .... or do you denounce such people ?
f. Do you feel that countries who oppose Islamic terrorism like the US , Canada & India should be brought to their knees by Islam ?
I would appreciate if you could answer the above as you feel it to be . Thanks .
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fido.
Nightmare makes some valid points:
1) regarding the level of influence (or control as he would rather call it) that ROP has in India.
2) He is right to state:
"This is a fallacy which most Indian intellectuals believe in. Just because it did not happen in 1,400 years does not mean that it won’t happen in next 40 years. World is changing at a very rapid pace. History has proved that those who do not adapt perish."
It must be remembered in Islamic history, if one brothers to study them. At that time Umar 's (the 2nd Caliph) army of 40,000 routed a Byzantine force of 120,000.
This extended ROP's rule over Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Persia in what from a purely military standpoint were astonishing victories.
At that time the dominant powers, were Byzantine and Persia - who underestimated the ROP.
They say, history repeats itself. Don't underestimate the opponent.
3) The assertion that 40 years that will rule the world however is false.
So, far ROP extremism has succeeded due to the following:
- Political correctness - misguided policies of the left (as Nightware puts it, "intellectual passivity of populace"
- Due the world's need of Oil (so politicians try to ignore where Jihad is coming from, for example Saudi Arabia.
- clinging to outdated ideas like Athenian model of democracy
change this, and victory belongs to the Free World
Quote:
Originally posted by sguk
Nightmare makes some valid points:
1) regarding the level of influence (or control as he would rather call it) that ROP has in India.
2) He is right to state:
"This is a fallacy which most Indian intellectuals believe in. Just because it did not happen in 1,400 years does not mean that it won’t happen in next 40 years. World is changing at a very rapid pace. History has proved that those who do not adapt perish."
It must be remembered in Islamic history, if one brothers to study them. At that time Umar 's (the 2nd Caliph) army of 40,000 routed a Byzantine force of 120,000.
This extended ROP's rule over Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Persia in what from a purely military standpoint were astonishing victories.
At that time the dominant powers, were Byzantine and Persia - who underestimated the ROP.
They say, history repeats itself. Don't underestimate the opponent.
3) The assertion that 40 years that will rule the world however is false.
So, far ROP extremism has succeeded due to the following:
- Political correctness - misguided policies of the left (as Nightware puts it, "intellectual passivity of populace"
- Due the world's need of Oil (so politicians try to ignore where Jihad is coming from, for example Saudi Arabia.
- clinging to outdated ideas like Athenian model of democracy
change this, and victory belongs to the Free World
Thanks.
Stated so succinctly and nicely. I could not have said better.
One more thing. ROP and ROL have very clearly understood the science related to humanities. One thing that I have come to understand is that crimes/ atrocities committed by one generation are forgotten within next couple of generations. (I am not complaining. In fact this is a good thing otherwise mankind would never have peace) If you look at real history, Muslims in India and Pakistan are descendants of Hindu converts, most of who were forced under the sword of tyrants. Now, that raises a fundamental issue. Whether Hindu should forget about past atrocities? My take:- Yes but be on guard that history does not repeat itself. Sadly, Hindu have not learnt anything. They are more concerned about Bollywood and IPL. Their awareness and interest do not extend beyond these. Hence I stated before that History will repeat itself. As regards Muslims, the question is that should they bear animosity towards Hindu? Obviously nobody is asking them to abandon their faith. However, they have to realize that ROP converted their forefathers under sword and that the same Jehadis look down upon them as “Inferior” muslims. (Those who have served in Guld long enough will vouch me).
Option for the world is to adapt to Indian style; accept Muslim dominance, suffer terrorist attacks, keep paying Jaziya and enjoy the life by watching movies and sport. In short adopt Ostrich like attitude. The other option is to adapt the changing demography by carefully inculcating their culture in immigrants and throwing away left liberal progressive socialist idea that ROP has right to practice 14th Century rituals and ideas in modern democracy under the guise of freedom of religion because there is nothing more sacred than freedom of speech and have sense of security and public order.
I believe that soon there will be some reformists from within Islam which will make its followers ( those who are violent ) shun violence .
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