Is it all over for the India?
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Posted on: 31-05-12 15:05:09
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Originally posted by BlueLobster
And whether you like it or not, the resource crunch in the next 20 years will be a huge strain on an already messed up infrastructure and further deteriorate the situation there if something is now done now.
On the other hand , the infrastructure will grow to meet the economic growth of the country as every body ( incl the politicians) are realizing that both are dependent on each .... There s going to be a huge spurt in infrastructure in India in the coming decade .......
I agree that there s a lot of corruption in India but that is not going to be the stopping force to India's growth as simply out India is a reservoir of relatively cheap skilled resources and with free world trade there s no reason the growth can be stopped ......
Population is being diverted in the correct direction for both India & China .... Compare this to the situation 20 years back and you will realize how many export oriented industries have been set up & flourishing currently and they are to grow ....
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Fido.
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Originally posted by Fido
Most of your statements above are pure speculation ... This will happen .. that will happen ... in stead let us concentrate on what is happening and what has happened historically ......
Is saying that corruption in India is rampant and affects ordinary citizens negatively speculation? Or that infrastructure is a mess? The judicial and law-enforcement system is mostly a farce. And that the lack of these fundamentals will ensure India will never achieve complete progress. Exactly what part of that is speculation?
Maybe you missed the post from someone in India complaining about the constant power cuts.
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The Soviet Union did lead the world in a cold war era and if you look deeper you will find how it balanced the power equation to lead the world in equilibrium as opposed to a one super power entity .
What do you call "leading the world"? Leaders influence. Did you in the past or do you now drink Russian cola? Or maybe you are using a cool new sPhone from that country. And how about those great Russian movies all over the world that you line up for? Did you eat a burger at Igor's in Mumbai? Compare Russian vs. American influence in India today, even an illiterate can see who's influenced and who is a footnote, despite the fact that India was leaning toward USSR in those days. Think of it this way, two countries went into the boxing ring and one came out the undisputed winner. The other collapsed spectacularly for the world to see. The Solvent Union was a leader in squat.
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And the same thing is now happening with China ..... it is fast becoming a super power and with the economic growth like what it is on today , will soon be the second super power .... and mind it China has a lot of exports (more than any other country ) unlike the Soviet Union ...... so the thought of its collapsing is far fetched .
I never said China will collapse. When it opens up though, this whole myth of a super efficient super organized country will dissipate. People will demand better living conditions and that will impact the cheap goods you get from there. They will demand the right to practice religion freely and have more than one kid. This is not speculation, it is common sense.
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The question was about super power and I thought you stated that a country cannot become a super power or lead the world if internally it is not fundamentally strong ...... And that is not the case with Soviet Union or China ....
See above about my view on "leading the world" and progress.
Your view of a super-power or world leader is one who can bully everyone else into submission, it does not matter that internally things are screwed and that there is hardly and cultural impact on the world. That is not "leadership". Look it up.
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In fact as has been witnessed , US has gained the International status it has not because of its economy might but due to its military might .....
There was this thing called the 19th and 20th century where a country called the USA contributed ridiculously disproportionately to the overall scientific advancement in the world. From Light bulbs to space rockets and everything in between. The US does have military might to ensure its super-power status, but without the other fundamentals in place which you can't see, it is nothing but another Soviet union which would've collapsed just the same by now.
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India will be an economic giant but may not be a super power as due to the non aligned doctrine followed by the country ....
Again, your shallow definition of "economic giant" makes no sense. If you have to count your rupees under candlelight because power is out, it's no fun.
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To reiterate how a country projects itself internationally has little to do with whats happening inside ......... India's economy is growing internationally -- should we understand then that the corruption is reducing ??? No they both are to an extent independent of each other ...... or some times work in the same direction ........
Again, you're worried about "projection". I'm talking about true progress or super-power status. Different things. India's economy may be growing, but it is no speculation that the fundamentals are getting worse every day and anyone with any amount of foresight can see that this will eventually hold back growth.
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Are you there?
Quote:
Originally posted by Fido
On the other hand , the infrastructure will grow to meet the economic growth of the country as every body ( incl the politicians) are realizing that both are dependent on each .... There s going to be a huge spurt in infrastructure in India in the coming decade .......
I certainly hope so, but given how things have turned out over the last 20 years despite unprecedented economic growth, I'm not keeping my fingers crossed.
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Are you there?
Are you trying to say that India has gone down or stayed the same infrastructurally during the last 20 yrs ..... Now thats ridiculous .
I have been to Delhi 20 years back and now and any one who has been there during these years or visited the place in the mean time can vouch by the fact that in 1990s the pollution scenario in Delhi was a constant smog exisiting in the sky ... And with the Govt's intervention not only have the roads infrastructure grown manifold but with measures like CNG transportation and Metro , pollution has come down and certainly not grown with the same pace ....
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Fido.
And the same goes for China as well .... If you would compare the infrastructural improvement in China over the past 20 years , you d take most of your statements back about what China is going to become and the like which is what I meant by speculation .
US would not have been a super power but for its military might ............. By your self concoted definition , USSR was never a super power --- right ??
Check out the meaning of super power before pointing out arguments as till then we do not know what are your referring to ??
You call China and India as shallow economic giants as against the world calling them propellers of economic growth ...ridiculous again .....
You are mixing economic growth with the welfare of the citizens ..... these are 2 different things and are not related ..............
India & China are growing economically and will continue to do so and with such growth will come better infrastructure ..... certainly .....
Lastly , you may not have drunk a Russian cola or wore an Igor jeans but you will be happy to note that Soviets helped India extensively against their wars and a Russian submarine escorted a US warship out of Indian Ocean during 1971 war ... which is more important than your so aspired and raved about American influence on India ....
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Fido.
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Originally posted by Fido
Are you trying to say that India has gone down or stayed the same infrastructurally during the last 20 yrs ..... Now thats ridiculous .
I have been to Delhi 20 years back and now and any one who has been there during these years or visited the place in the mean time can vouch by the fact that in 1990s the pollution scenario in Delhi was a constant smog exisiting in the sky ... And with the Govt's intervention not only have the roads infrastructure grown manifold but with measures like CNG transportation and Metro , pollution has come down and certainly not grown with the same pace ....
Don't only see the new flyovers and wide roads – compare the net result. The commute time 20 years ago was far shorter than now for the same distance irrespective of the new infrastructure. The multiplying population has diminished the improvement efforts. There is a widening gap in the magnitude of population growth and infrastructure improvement.
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A Delhite in Toronto
The bottomline is - you said that unless the internal fundamentals of a country are strong it can never lead the world ....
And I am pointing out , it has happened before ... Soviets led the world as a 'super power' for a good part of the century ...... (it collapsed but that was more for economic and political reasons rather than anything else ...)
And the same s happening with China .... remember Tianammen square ... And where China stands now in the world both economically & militarily ...... despite bein communist and despite caring less for general populace's will ..... China has the advantages that Russia did not .... ie economic growth ......
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Fido.
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