The concept of caste is too embedded in the mindset to be simply forgotten when you immigrate to another country. So in that sense it does exist in people's minds. The question is more around the impact it has. In Canada, I think what you may have are closet "casteists". The concept is no different than closet racism, i.e. you cannot act it out because of laws - however when someone like this is with a group of his/her own or in a "safe" environment, he/she will make a derogatory comment or blame the world's problems on the other caste. Like anywhere, these are mostly people with low self esteem who need other ways to boost their ego. There are no official stats. I know of, but of all the people I have met in Canada, these types of bigots are in the minority.
If you look at matrimonials for Cdn. nationals on an Indian website, you will see almost everyone mentions thecaste and most will state their preference to marry in their caste. This will take a generation or more to go away, I personally think this has less to with looking down upon lower castes and more to do with cutting down on the uncertainty of communicating with a total stranger over the internet (people think, often falsely, that if they meet someone from their own caste, the chances of compatibility are higher). Similar to someone who is white/black and not racist, but would prefer to marry someone within their own race.
It is not all that different in the citities of India these days. The material impact of caste is minimal (as a matter of fact, the govt. has some benefits if you belong to a lower caste). The school I attended in the 80s has kids from all castes and although most were aware of their castes, there was really no distinction. I also heard a story about a kid who was not aware he of his lower caste until he fared poorly on his finals before college and then his Dad gave him a certificate that allowed him to get into a good university using a quota system. So there is a flip-side too (did not know anyone like this personally, so not sure if this is true or an urban myth)
Different story in some rural areas of India though, where you are at a significant disadvantage if you belong to a lower caste. Generally, the lower your education and socio-economic status, the more vulnerable you are to this kind of propaganda. You can draw parallels with racism here too.
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Are you there?
There is more inter-caste marriage in India than there is inter-racial marriage in Canada.
BlueLobster has given the right perspective of caste-ism here in North America or in fact in anywhere in the western world and I have to give my life as an example to that.
I married to a woman who is from a different caste . We met in Germany where we went for our masters and initially caste was not an issue until people realized that we both are into each other and could take further step of getting married to each other. Though all of my friends in Germany were there for higher education (people tend to assume that educated new generation has abolished caste-ism) at least handful of them wanted to know our caste. It could be out of curiosity or it could be because they want to judge if we are doing it right. The most uphill task I faced was with my family though I had an urban life, I realized that my parent's still had this frenetic caste bias when I popped up the question.
And after we got married, Government of India refused to issue us a marriage certificate until we declare both of our castes which was against our mutual interests. I wanted to abolish the caste system at-least in my personal future life and the first step was to deny to declare it for my marriage certificate. I had to wait for 2 months to declare myself a failure to achieve it in my first step. IMO When the government wants to separate us with castes it is very hard to abolish it from India.
After arriving in USA, most people tend to ask what caste's we are from, when they learn that we got married against my parent's interest. And I learned that actually people watch movies(this is true to south Indian movies) when the hero is from their own caste and a few are members of that particular hero's fan's association, which was stupid to me.
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 26-03-12 13:14:09
Well Ramesh really had a different experience.
In my life in Canada (9 years) no once people asked me about caste.
Our talk was more about how Canada cheats immigrants (not only spoken to me but even when I visited Dundas-Hurontario, I over hear people saying that), how to bring parents here,how to receive the max. benefits from the cdn. govt.., How health care is crap etc...
In my office in India,many AD's (American Desi's) say that they will never immigrate to Canada as it is a racist country. Anyways ,I know that CD's will not accept my post but this is what I have heard.
Peace
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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.
I guess you did not get the point. It's not discussed on a daily basis when ever you meet people. Under some circumstances people tend to come out with caste bias and as BlueLobster explained it happens when people with the same kind of ideas come together and I happen to be the reason on a couple of occasions.
And as you said people still whine about being how the country cheats them when they are the individuals who chose the country rather than the other way.
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 26-03-12 22:23:06
And as you said people still whine about being how the country cheats them when they are the individuals who chose the country rather than the other way.
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There is a difference between you choosing a country out of your own free will or by the govt. making you choose the country by publishing crap information like (This was in 2000) :
"By 2005, Canada will not be able to fill a million jobs"
"By 2003, Govt. of Canada will have 100000 retires from the govt. sector whose seat will be left vacant"
Etc..
Etc..
Peace
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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.
Every country which rely on immigrants due to short supply of its own resources make a prediction what holds in the future as you said "By 2005, Canada will not be able to fill a million jobs". But, it's one's incapability to think what if the prediction does not come true and do not have a back up plan.
Prediction are made what future holds, so lot of dynamics change and it one's responsibility to measure everything and take a decision.
Just for a second treat it as a big company and they advertised few jobs and predict where the company would go say in 5 years and the opportunities it creates for their employees. We buy that, go to that company and join. Later came to know its not all true about it. What would we do? Just stay there for 9 years whining that it has cheated me or just find another job which we think is good for us and get away from there.
If you did not try to get away from that company/country, even when you realize its not good for you then the reason could be
1. We are incapable of finding another good place to work.
2. We are worth only what we got coz that's what our capabilities are
3. Since you already got there, lazy to find another place or ego hurts to accept that we made a wrong decision from coming to that country/company so take out frustration by saying that the company/country cheated you.
At the end of the day it's our life and we need to do what's good for us. Can't blame it someone else for our in-capabilities. It's we who are unhappy and can't change it by whining that the country cheated you.
I'm sorry for deviating from the OP.
