NOTE: THIS POST IS NOT AIMED AT A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY, BUT A SMALL SECTION IN THE SAME. PLEASE NO ISLAM BASHERS.
MODS: I apologise for the inconvenience...please lock/pull this thread if this gets out of hand and people use this thread for anything other than a healthy debate.
Most of us are slowly waking up to the threat of militant islamic supremacists. Let us not be afraid to call the kettle black due to political correctness and our fear that we will be considered intolerant. Let us show intolerance to intolerance and support our Muslim friends in preventing this from becoming a wider conflict in our backyards. Let us be open in criticising the terrorist culture within Islam, as we would criticise the Aryan brotherhood, the klu klux klan or any other supremacists who seek to impose their agenda on us thru violence.
I quote from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pipes
Others, including Muslims, defended the appointment. Akbar Ahmed, chair of Islamic studies at American University, asked "Who is better placed to act as a bridge than the scholar of Islam?" Pakistani-American Tashbih Sayyed, editor of the Muslim World Today and the Pakistan Times, called Pipes "a Cassandra. He must be listened to. If there is no Daniel Pipes, there is no source for America to learn to recognize the evil which threatens it. Historians will write later that Pipes saved us. There are Muslims in America that are like Samson; they have come into the temple to pull down the pillars, even if it means destroying themselves." Sheikh Dr. Ahmed Subhy Mansour, a former visiting fellow in the human-rights program at Harvard Law School stated "We Muslims need a thinker like Dr. Pipes, who can criticize the terrorist culture within Islam, just as I usually do."[10]
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An article from Pipes about the reaction to UK bombings
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3747
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Isn’t it bit scary to hear some one say “The one thing I do believe is that the world would be much better off without Islamism” (one of the respondent of above article). We must call spade a spade, but a solution mimicking view like this reply will get humanity in more trouble. Should we not deplore what is going on in the Middle East today? Should this culminate into a full fledge war.
At the same time Muslims always tend to portray themselves as victims. They should take responsibility for what their leaders say and do, because they chose to call them leaders. And so should Americans who chose Bush. Every action has consequence and reaction.
Aren’t the western Govnt. responcible of supporting one of the worst non democratic regimes on the face of planet? We are treating the symptoms, not the cause……
Quote:
Originally posted by Ranin
Isn’t it bit scary to hear some one say “The one thing I do believe is that the world would be much better off without Islamism” (one of the respondent of above article).
I beleive he is talking about the militant supremacist brand...I could be wrong.
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Should we not deplore what is going on in the Middle East today? Should this culminate into a full fledge war.
Which part. Both sides trace their grudges/positions back to antiquity.
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Aren’t the western Govnt. responcible of supporting one of the worst non democratic regimes on the face of planet? We are treating the symptoms, not the cause……
I agree no one is singularly to blame for the symptoms. Everyone shares the blame.
However, at this point, should we not be asking where do we go from here to get back on track? Or should we be asking who is to blame and go around in circles?
Right now the 'symptom' is the threat. Removing any 'causes' even if possible...will NOT diminish or lessen the threat. The ultimate aim of the supremacist is NOT removal of the 'causes'. Their bigger aim is to impose their way of life on everyone else.
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Posted on: 13-07-06 11:21:59
Quote:
Originally posted by jake3d
Right now the 'symptom' is the threat. Removing any 'causes' even if possible...will NOT diminish or lessen the threat. The ultimate aim of the supremacist is NOT removal of the 'causes'. Their bigger aim is to impose their way of life on everyone else.
Firstly, Thanks to Jake for bringing the first article posted to everyone's attention (I had not seen it before and being a Brit, it was very insightful for me).
Below is a reponse to your above post Jake, the part where you say "Their bigger aim is to impose their way of life on everyone else."
I was born and raised in the UK. Whether I was in school, college, university or at work, muslim women were allowed to go about and wear their traditonal clothing (covering their heads and faces, etc.) which is their perogative and their right. As it is a Sikh man's right to wear a turban, or a Hindu woman's right to wear a sari. As I got older and moved into college, special rooms were built inside the college facilities to accommodate muslims for their daily prayers...there would be special islamic meetings in the community rooms, prior to which I would have a muslim guy dressed in islamic wear from head to toe handing me a leaflet that told me to "Live the right way - The Islamic Way"
The fact that alot of muslims in Britain today are conflicted about their identities is purely because they have not intergrated into British culture...the term "Londonistan" from the article Jake posted says it all. I don't understand the hatred towards a western society when they themselves are reaping the benefits of living in one. I don't wish to tar all muslims with the same brush...many of my greatest friends are muslim and their views are the same as mine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pink Panther
Firstly, Thanks to Jake for bringing the first article posted to everyone's attention (I had not seen it before and being a Brit, it was very insightful for me).
Hi PP.Its not very fashionable in UK or in Canada to view things from this perspective. That will change if there are any attacks here...i hope it reamins unfashionable for that reason.
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special rooms were built inside the college facilities to accommodate muslims for their daily prayers...there would be special islamic meetings in the community rooms, prior to which I would have a muslim guy dressed in islamic wear from head to toe handing me a leaflet that told me to "Live the right way - The Islamic Way".
I personally do not have a problem with this at all. Everybody has a right to freedom of speech religion/worship and even expansion/evangalisation of their beliefs etc. The catch word is 'NON VIOLENTLY'. If a ideology is superior, non-violent means are enough to convince those in a democratic/free society.
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I don't understand the hatred towards a western society when they themselves are reaping the benefits of living in one.
This is my peeve too. Not only that, they overtly/covertly support the extremists. This is what has to change.
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I don't wish to tar all muslims with the same brush...many of my greatest friends are muslim and their views are the same as mine.
There are many of those on this board too and I hope they do not take this as an affront to them. For it is not.
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Posted on: 13-07-06 12:00:45
Quote:
Originally posted by jake3d
Quote:
special rooms were built inside the college facilities to accommodate muslims for their daily prayers...there would be special islamic meetings in the community rooms, prior to which I would have a muslim guy dressed in islamic wear from head to toe handing me a leaflet that told me to "Live the right way - The Islamic Way"
I personally do not have a problem with this at all. Everybody has a right to freedom of speech religion/worship and even expansion/evangalisation of their beliefs etc. The catch word is 'NON VIOLENTLY'. If a ideology is superior, non-violent means are enough to convince those in a democratic/free society.
same as mine.
Yes I agree, we all have a right to free speech/freedom of religious practice, etc, and in no way was I suggesting that being a muslim or practising Islam was wrong in any way.
Being able to "be"and live as a Muslim in any non-Islamic country should be enough for a person...but to want to have Islamic law put in place in a non-Islamic country is quite something else - something I do not agree with.
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