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The reasons for the terrorism –

it all mostly boils down to the same – religion, religion and religion.

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Very true. Especially when one religion teaches it's followers that there is no God but Allah and Mohd is his messenger.

The issue is about integeting with main stream society. Live and Let Live.

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Originally posted by amitcr

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The reasons for the terrorism –

it all mostly boils down to the same – religion, religion and religion.

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Very true. Especially when one religion teaches it's followers that there is no God but Allah and Mohd is his messenger.

The issue is about integeting with main stream society. Live and Let Live.

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Amit that is quite allright if Islam does have that statement.. Even Christianity has that belief abt Jesus...which is quite okay.

What is not okay with Islam is how they treat (or have feelings for non believers)...

Read the last link of my signature to find out..

Your other statement abt Pakistan asking for evidence..I agree with that... I dont believe that they are saints but I sure would like hard concrete evidence. The culprits are terrorists in India itself.. Find them..then the evidence comes out !

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Ambiguity, you have spoken like a true "pseudo-liberal" (reminds me of Arundhati Roy and her Ilk..)

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If confronting you with reality makes my words sound like a “pseudo-liberal” then I am proud to be one, and I am proud to be a communist (many call me that, and you can too).
Your entire post actually proves my point. Nevertheless, the existence of other "pseudo-liberals" or communists like me in the society is what makes my post worthwhile.
I am not trying to justify terrorism. I was just talking about the socio economic structures, which give birth to the rebel class, and henceforth are converted into toy terrorists by selfish politicians or people who long to gain power, or religious fanatics.
Have you ever thought about the mindset of a person who is preparing for years to be a human bomb ? Consider LTTE. They are amongst the pioneers of the concept of suicide attacks and are they religious fanatics? Are they muslims?

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But for the next, I dont see that happening in India anytime soon. You say you are an Indian (from India ?)...So are you a Hindu Indian or a Christian Indian or Sikh Indian ?...none...You are an Indian Hindu, Indian CHristian etc. !Not so with most, (if not all) Muslims in India...& pls dont talk abt Bollywood...Our own Yusuf Khan (aka Dilip Kumar) had to ask Vajpayee if he should return the award presented by the Govt of Pakistan, while we had another person by the name of Morarji Desai, who returned it immediately..shows the difference between two folks of different religions !

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I don’t SAY “I am an Indian”, I AM an Indian. I feel sad when I am faced with such a question, even if it is asked sarcastically. I don subscribe to any religion or God. Go ahead, call me a “pseudo-atheist” now. I don’t attach a prefix or a suffix when I refer to myself as an Indian. Still, I will answer your question (Sad but true that it will help me to prove that I am not a muslim advocating my religion). From the social perspective, I belong to a Bengali-Hindu-Brahmin-Indian family. Sorry, that’s as far as I can go, as I don’t happen to have more details. And why just blame the muslims ? Aren’t we all suffering from this meanness ? It’s not just Hindu-Muslim-Christian-Sikh but we are also Punjabis, Gujratis, Marathis, Bengalis, Tamilians etc. first and then an Indian. I do not want to give example of Bollywood here. Neither will I give examples of politicians. Instead, let me ask you - there are muslims working with indian defense. Is there a difference between the mindset of a Hindu soldier and a Muslim soldier ? May be you thinking they all are spies for Pakistan. Or let me ask you about your view about the person who helped Canadian govt. to capture those terrorists. What you will refer to him as, an exception? May be I have seen too many of these exceptions while forming by view and u have only seen the fundamentalists. This is just my assumption based on your outlook.

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Heck... they have problems reciting Vande Maataram (a song which even revolutionaries like Ashfaqullah of the Bhagat Singh group proudly sang)..

I am willing to accept your statement and respect him/her for what he is, *IF* I am also accorded that respect. I believe in quid-pro-quo... However, I cannot get that respect as I am a Kaafir, a "Pagan" as morning_rain has stated above. I should be killed or if not I should be converted to Islam otherwise I must pay Tax to practise my religion !

However, why does a Muslim president like A.P.J.Abdul Kalam have my respect (eternal respect)? That's cos he is what any *INDIAN* dreams of being... He knows how to respect others religions (I read in his memoirs that he is an exponent of the Saraswati Veena !)...

They are having problem with singing vande matarm.

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The song was written by Rishi Bankim Chandra and was considered as the national anthem (and not Jana Gana Mana) during British period. The first two words are still used as a slogan by the Indian Congress party. There are/were muslim members in the congress party. They all were not in Muslim League (who are responsible for the division of the country). Maulana Azad, Badruddin Tyebji, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan (Sarhadi Gandhi), Hakim Ajmal Khan, Dr. Ansari, Rafi Ahmad Qidwai, Ali Brothers also existed.
Then how can muslims have problem with singing Vande Mataram? why are you considering a notification of a fundamentalist muslim group as the voice of muslims? Should we think whatever the VHP, Shiv Sena, RSS, Bajrang dal are preaching, symbolizes the view of the entire Hindus?
And why just muslims again. Why don’t you talk about places where they don’t even know what national anthem is ? How many of your Hindu friends consider “Sare Jahan Se Achha” as our national anthem ? How many schools and institutions actually sing it in functions, ceremonies, etc. considering it to be the national anthem ?
How many hindus can actually sing the entire national anthem ?
Why don’t we blame them for being anti-India ?

The truth is, we don’t want the muslims to be a part of the mainstream. And we cry foul if they consider themselves segregated. With your mindset, I am sure it wouldn’t be too easy to understand.

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I dont have any sympathies for Muslims in India (or anywhere else) :
1.) Who try to rationalize Terrorism and raise the fav bogey (Islam is in Danger !)
2.) Who are Members of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board and try to act as power centers (e.g., the Supreme COurt cannot interefere with Sharia courts ! shame on them)
3.) Pseudo-secularists like Javed Akhtar and Shabana Aazmi
4.) Who put their 'Quom'-'Mazhab" over the law of the land !

Thats the problems with Muslims in the UK..and also in India.. They cannot integrate with society, with a free society ...cos they will lose their identity...a Muslim first and anything after that.

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I don’t think I need to write a single word on this context. I find your concept is totally tainted with generalization (the moment you said “the muslims of India and in the UK” it generalized and brought all the Muslims of India and UK under the categories which you hate). I also can sense here the influence of my “chaddi friends” like Narendra Modi and Togdia.

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and definately I would *Never* like to call folks from SIMI my "brothers".. They are scumbags..who should be shot like the Fundus in other religions (your best pal Narendra Modi for example).. But until that happens, I am afraid to say, Narendra Modi and his ilk will exploit this "Non-Muslim" anger to the hilt andyou know what will happen next !

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How can I expect you to call the SIMI folks your brothers !!!! You can’t call ANY muslim your brother as long as you view all the muslims the way you do. SIMI is an organization campaigning terrorism (yes I do think that). Do you think I still expect that from you after reading your post that oozes with hatred ?

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But until that happens, I am afraid to say, Narendra Modi and his ilk will exploit this "Non-Muslim" anger to the hilt andyou know what will happen next !

So ambiguity...pls find me more ppl like Abdul Kalam... a true Muslim for me and a "Kaafir" for others.... I will surely and sincerely like to meet such folks.

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I can’t find you people like A.P.J.Abdul Kalam coz for that you need to turn into a so-called “pseudo-liberal”. Judging by your post, I can’t dare to think that.
As long as you believe in quid-pro-quo, you cannot see it. And if you think it is a good solution to the problem we are addressing, go ahead (we anyway are going ahead). I know what will happen next!!!!!

Another long note – Due to my profession, I do get in touch with people who represent the oppressed class and I do see some future terrorists in their eyes. And my thoughts are not a theory devised in an AC room with a hot cup of coffee and some half-baked conceptions gathered via the Internet. They are my personal observation where I claim, that I have tried to see both sides of the coin, based on my interactions with the communities from where a large number of terrorists came (specially the north-eastern communities of India).

The tourists injured in the latest blasts in Kashmir have said repeatedly about the cooperation of the local people throughout the entire process of facing the terrible time in a strange land (which includes carrying the injured to the hospital) In fact recently I met one of the victims of a bombing in Kashmir that occurred a few months back. He had lost his mother in it and his wife had lost a leg in the incident. During the interview he was continuously reminding us about the assistance of the masses in the valley after the explosion.

This is one of the reasons I wrote what I wrote earlier here. May be still we can make some difference. May be we still can get them in the main stream of the populace.

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I am not trying to justify terrorism. I was just talking about the socio economic structures, which give birth to the rebel class, and henceforth are converted into toy terrorists by selfish politicians or people who long to gain power, or religious fanatics.
Have you ever thought about the mindset of a person who is preparing for years to be a human bomb ? Consider LTTE. They are amongst the pioneers of the concept of suicide attacks and are they religious fanatics? Are they muslims?

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You have given a lot of excuses (reasons as you call it) for terrorism.

Kashmiri Pandits were systematically threatened, opressed, killed, murdered and asked to leave Kashmir if they wanted to live. I am sure you must be aware that the kashmiri pandit community is today facing extinction. There was a pre-planned genocide against them in their own homeland and today they are living as refugees in their own country. Yet, why is it that NOT ONE KASHMIRI PANDIT has flown air-planes into buildings, blown up commuter trains and beheaded people? Why is it that NOT A SINGLE kashmiri pandit has become a terrorist even after being opressed, discriminated and singled out for punishment.

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Originally posted by ambiguity

How many of your Hindu friends consider “Sare Jahan Se Achha” as our national anthem ? How many schools and institutions actually sing it in functions, ceremonies, etc. considering it to be the national anthem ?
How many hindus can actually sing the entire national anthem ?
Why don’t we blame them for being anti-India ?

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Correction : 'Sare Jahan se Achha' isnt our national anthem...however your observations are very true, but violence is never justified for any reason whatsoever - else the Babri masjid and godhra incidents should not cause any uproar.

Hiren