Posted on: 04-01-04 17:18:42
//and that is why though Sujata finds this site depressing, she keeps reading it for passing her time//
I did not come here to while away my time, I came here to post a few comments to help Indians who are new to Canada since I took the pledge that all Indians were my brothers and sisters once upon a time.
Well....no wonder the Successful Indians of Canada don't come and post often in this forum. Most of you here are too sure of your own corrupted views of Canada as a racist, corrupt country and it looks like nothing any successful Indo-Canadian can post is going to change your minds.
This forum started off as a very positive place, but unfortunately in the last few months it seems to have degenerated into a cesspool of negativity into which unaware Indians can wander in and take a dip in its negativity.
I wonder why all of you who claim that you had great success before you came here haven’t gone back to your great successes. Claiming that you are staying behind because your kids cannot adjust back into schools, etc. sounds very phony, since you could afterall provide them an overall better lifestyle with the successful lives you could lead after leaving Canada. Giving kids as an excuse sounds a lot like the excuses given by “unsuccessful” black people in the US, who blame everything on slavery and discrimination.
I hope the admins of the forum would at least monitor the articles many of which are misleading to new immigrants and to those who are back in India trying to immigrate.
Good luck and goodbye all, hope you will see the light some day at which time please come back and post that you were wrong which would help those who are being misled today.
Chandresh I have a strong feeling that you are hurting somebody's bottom line. Though I may not agree with all that you say, you do not directly affect my business especially since its not immigration consulting. That may not be the case for everyone 
.
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Quote:
Orginally posted by sujata
I did not come here to while away my time, I came here to post a few comments to help Indians who are new to Canada since I took the pledge that all Indians were my brothers and sisters once upon a time.
WERE my brothers and sisters.......... does it mean you can change relationships of brothers and sisters .......I thought you could do that only for husband and wife, but you seem to have gone a step ahead and applied it to brothers and sisters.
People who take a pledge to help others - they don't get pissed off just after 13 posts - they fight for the cause they sincerely believe in much much longer than that. Quitters can never help others, they can only phrase nice sentences but never mean it!
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Well....no wonder the Successful Indians of Canada don't come and post often in this forum. Most of you here are too sure of your own corrupted views of Canada as a racist, corrupt country and it looks like nothing any successful Indo-Canadian can post is going to change your minds.
Success is not measured in terms of how successful you are in Canada alone. People can be extremely successful in other parts of the world, but fail in Canada - and vice versa.
Secondly, it is better for successful people to stay away from such forums than to post something out of management books without substantiating it with personal experiences (even after being requested to do so), or authenticated that success achieved. I can change myself immediately and start writing what one should do to be sucessful without giving my personal experiences - but will it be genuinely helping my brothers and sisters? I will be cheating them.
And such comments from a person who does not even write anything about herself in the profile nor comes out with advice substantiated or outlined with the modus operandi when requested to - nor even ready to attend the meeting specifically called for this purpose though we have sent a personal invitation to her in her message box!!!!
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This forum started off as a very positive place, but unfortunately in the last few months it seems to have degenerated into a cesspool of negativity into which unaware Indians can wander in and take a dip in its negativity.
To dream of utopia is great.......but one should accept facts of life and not judge the world around him by his own personal success and failures. Try to go out there Sujata and explore Canada for yourself. In case you do not accept the experiences of persons posting on this site, try to visit HRDC offices, Job finding clubs, Skills for change, various factories, gas stations, Future Shops, Krispy Kremes, Canadian Tire etc etc etc. You will find hundreds of professionals looking for some job or doing menial jobs - and that is not only from India - they are even from countries like Germany and England - the so called developed countries. There are quite a few successful people like Jake and BL and Sujata - but in what proportion??? How would you term employement situation in Canada if you find a team of 10 persons going over to a factory to do an inventory count at $8 an hour and 8 out of them are CAs or MBAs. How do you feel when you find a chinese rocket scientist working in a bakery shop making pancakes for a living?
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....are staying behind because your kids cannot adjust back into schools, etc. sounds very phony, since you could afterall provide them an overall better lifestyle with the successful lives you could lead after leaving Canada.
I am sure you do not have kids - or not grown up ones - if you had you wouldn't say such a thing. Even psycologists say that moving kids from one school to another or one environment to another in quick succession is very bad for their mental and psycological growth. There are many people in Canada, including me, who could go back to India today and not only give their kids all they want from monetary point of view but also lead a good life without having to work again for the rest of their lives - but Asians being asians, will always think of what is good for their children, not only for them (unless people like you are ready to change relationships even with kids and say - they were my kids once upon a time!)
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I hope the admins of the forum would at least monitor the articles many of which are misleading to new immigrants and to those who are back in India trying to immigrate.
Perfect - accepted totally - including for those posts who mislead by painting a rosier picture than what facts are, or those saying - don't listen to others, just be your self and you will succeed!
Just to enlighten you - the developer of this site originated this because of the shock he himself experienced with professional immigrants' lives in Canada - and he pledged to help intending, would be and newly landed immigrants!
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Good luck and goodbye all, hope you will see the light some day at which time please come back and post that you were wrong which would help those who are being misled today.
Don't quit please - your posts are enlightening - and discussion worthy. If everyone had the same opinion, there would be no need to discuss and exhange views - everyone will simply follow the same path. AND YES, COME OVER FOR THE MEETING ON 10TH JAN - I HAVE SPECIALLY KEPT A 15 MINUTE SLOT FOR YOU- we all want to benefit from your success story and technique.
However, still if you decide to quit - all CanadianDesi members will know for sure you are actually a loser!
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
Dear Sujata, Chandresh, Jake
I am very new to this forum and of course a "Junior Desi", who has just applied for immigration to Canada. This website is really a boon for prospective immigrants like me. I am hoping that this site will help me to land in Canada with some planning and with very realistic ambitions (realistic need not necessarily mean pessimistic!).
Having said that, for me each and every opinion contributed in these discussions is valuable. I need to read both: success stories and stories of disappointment. Only then, will I be able to crystallise my approach to the entire process.
Beginners like me need opinions of as many people as possible. And each of us is a different individual with different experiences and therefore different opinions! Opinions may differ but each one of us has a right to have one and express it. But as you only have said this needs to be done without "belittling" others or by "poking holes" and definitely not letting this "degenerate into a mudslinging fest".
So dear friends, why are we fighting? We are all mature people, express your own opinion and let others express theirs. The unpleasant part of this discussion was very avoidable.
Wishing every one a Happy 2004 and hoping that the tension eases, and the focus returns to the main subject!
With best regards and expecting continued guidance from all senior desis(including you Sujata ,
Vishal Grover
PS: Sujata, you must go to the meeting on the 10th, if you can!
Yes Vishal, you are right - all this could be avoided. Infact I let my posting remain on the screen for over an hour before submitting it finally. However, on reading Sujata's post a few times, i could not hold it back.
You would agree, whatever I post, unfortunately mostly negative because of my personal experiences, I substantiate them with examples and truthful revelations without feeling shamful about my failures. However, if someone simply gives advice from \"how to be successful\" books without substantiating it with personal experiences and / or techniques applied by self, or even divulging what successes he achieved - and then calls others names - comparing to unsuccessful blacks (isn't that racism - aren't there unsuccessul whites in America?), calling others as phony, living in the dark, corrupted views, etc. etc., it is difficult to control oneself - I am not a saint afterall.
The fact that most of the members have had or are having difficult times in Canada itself is a proof of the views expressed by some of us and that is why we are having a meeting on the 10th to unite and do something to better our life and status here.
Still, I would try to avoid getting angry in future - but what I am really worried about it is that intending immigrants like you should not get a rosier picture than facts. Gloomier is ok - because if you still decide to come, you will not be shocked, and if more sucessful than others, very happy, but if it is the other way, you will never forgive we senior desis! And if you decide not to come based on negative experiences, without analysing them- you know that you did not have it in you to be able to achieve success here!
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
I'd add to Chandreshs post by saying that if you are 'truly' interested in helping others as some claim, you *should* post relevant details of your personal success or failures, as you view them. Take Garvo and BL for example. You know what they do and they tell you how thay avoided the pitfalls that many of us(me included, when I first came in) fell into. You have to open yourself and your experiences to others, if your true intention is to help people.
As for me, I would rather believe in Chandreshs posts, however negative, because he is not hiding who he is...anybody who goes to the meeting can meet him OR me. Of course, there may be risks (current or in the future to self or interests) associated with making your opinions known without the security of being anonymous. If you really intend helping people...that will not matter.
However, I would give a second thought about taking any advice from people who do not reveal *anything* about their personal experiences (it is not necessary to post your address or real name, we are not asking anyone to reveal their identity like we have) and simply * insist* that someone elses experiences and opinions are hogwash. Note that both Chandresh and me have repeatedly asked the person(who writes as Sujata) to relate his/her personal experiences on more than one ocassion.
In my experience, people who indulge in the latter behaviour are more interested in helping themselves and their vested interests. Dubious at the best . I sincerely hope I am incorrect in thinking so about 'Sujata', and hopes she/he proves me wrong.
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Vishal and other intending immigrants from Delhi,
I am planning to be in Delhi during the second and third weeks of February to attend some weddings in the family. In case you want to meet up with me to get to know more about the positive and negatives of Canada - as per my thinking - are welcome to send me an e-mail giving your contact details. I will have very little time to spare from social activities - but will be willing to share my experiences with others along with my wife and kids and those relations who have been to Canada and seen our and general life in Canada.
I would be staying in South Delhi.
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
