Posted on: 27-03-04 23:57:42
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
Sanjeevm and others
Talaash khatm nahi hui, lekin jab talash karne nikle the, tab ya ab tak yeh maloom hai kya ki talaash kya kar rahe the - ya kabhi ye bhi socha tha kya ki jis cheez ki talaash hai, voh Canada main miltee hai, ya shayad ghar main hi thi?
I really could not put it better.
I wonder how people can think that coming here means more money. I still also cannot understand the 1=30 equation. That would only benefit someone who was living(frugally) in Canada and sending the money back to family in India. Its also obvious that one can do THAT better in the ME isn't it? Is that such a difficult thing to understand OR am I a genius to know that even before I came here at the age of 24? I knew that I would be a different person once I came here and would have to change a lot in my thinking. Why do people who are resistant to change consider coming to an alien culture where change is INEVITABLE?
The other day I was talking to a friend(also from India) about how people, from the west, are going back there. I used to earn 30k/pm 8 yrs ago in India and know that I will be able to command a much higher salary since there are a lot of opportunities in my field even in India. We both decided that it is not worth it to do so, here are the reasons...maybe in a roundabout way this will answer Sanjeevs original question:
1) House: In India we will probably be able to afford a great house in a great area. However, if we step out we definitely have to deal with the same dirt and pollution that others have to. Here I have a small house in a middle class area which is cleaner than some of the very posh areas in Mumbai.
2) Kids education: For my kids to get access to the activities of their public schools in Montreal, they will probably have to be in elitist schools in India. I'd rather that my kids have a good education along with other common people...that is a great education for a child. A great education in an elite school will prepare my kid only for an artificial and elitist world ONLY in India...as many of us have proven.
Also according to me education is much more than learning to multiply or the ability to memorize a book from cover to cover.
3)Lifestyle: I am young and for me its more important to be out and physically active with the family(cycling, fishing, winter sports etc). Any middle class Canadian has that kind of lifestyle within reach. I'd rather live in a society where I do not have to be an elite person, in India, sitting in a fenced in area to keep the riff-raff out, inorder to enjoy this simple but important part of my life. I also consider this active lifestyle an important part of my legacy that I will leave to my kids.
4) Human rights and equality: A child, in canada, who is born to a garbage collector can aspire to be the CEO of a company. Even the garbage collector himself can do the same (MY BOSS). Every one has got the opportunity to chase his/her dream irrespective of birth status. I feel good to be part of such a society
5) Security: I have never used EI in these 8 yrs but am happy to know that its there if I need it. Access to healthcare(free/subsidised) also is very important. I know that I am doing well today but it may not be the case tomorrow. This is true even in India and I'd rather have the healthcare system we have here.
6) Corruption: In Canada, its easy to get things like license,passport etc without having to bribe anybody. Corruption exists but is not an accepted part of daily life.
7) Career: the world is my stage
So considering all this I'm living a much more satisfied life, in Canada, than I would be living at my age in India. That being said I have not yet achieved what I came here for.
Manzil abhi bhi bahut door hai. Lekin India mein manzil nazar he nahi aa raha tha. So obviously, Sanjeev, we are looking for different things. Hope we both get what we are looking for.
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Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
People from middle east have written reasons like no possibility of being able to buy a property - I say is that so necessary so as to give away other good things in life. They talk about rights - as a common man, what rights does one enjoy in his daily life? Can he go against the boss and disobey him ? Even the senior persons in the sponsorship scandal could not do it for the fear of their bosses - so what rights do they enjoy?
Middle East is a different story all together. Normal view of canada is not very very positive if we compare it with income levels and lifestyle. We dont have issues of security (robberies and thefts) I myself have forgotten to lock up my car few times and its not a surprise in the morning that no one touched the car and ofcourse we dont miss india that much cause its very approachable with lower flight rates and as well as lesser travel time.
Whole ME situation is not as simple as chandresh has mentioned. I agree that even senior employees fear bosses everywhere in the world but things such as not being able to switch you job even if you have got better offer , ban from six months upto a year, discrimination between locals, gora and asians and ofcourse no permanancy be it PR or Citizenship.
The point is that in canada you have all these advantages (ofcourse once you have got good job). Here, even if you have led good life and reached top you can be thrown out because of one mistake. We dont have enough rights to challenge locals here cause we know system is going to favour them. I am sure chandresh you are definately having benefits of your rights whether you use it or not. Sheer fact that you have right to question and fair law system gives you enough protection. I am not saying canada will be perfect but i am sure it will be better in this point as at least. Your rights are like weapons for your protection and if the other party knows that you have it you may not need to use it.
In Dubai employers take advantage of law. And these employers are not only Local or europeans but also indians. Infact 70 % business is run by indians and pakistanies. The govt gives protection to the business people from their employees and the govt gives protection to locals from outside businessmen. So who ever is on the top will take best out of the person next in his hierarchy. That sucks every expatriates here and a core reason for frustration. Which pushes them to lookout for countries like USA or canada
Imagine a situation after 10 years when one has got stable job or business and suddenly due to some law change you are out with a life time ban. which is quite possible due to uncertanity of UAE laws. They might just unqualify you due to some reason which they think is right. In such a situation you will lose all what you have earned in 10 years. Your family life as well as professional life is ruined. And after 10 years you dont have the same energy to start off again. Currently I guess everybody in ME will agree Dubai is growing at such a rapid pace that it can sustain for another 5 years easily, but the law is a question mark and what then is a question mark.
Once dubai closes doors for you you have no where else but to go back to india. Yes if someone comes from canada he has second option to go to canada,USA or India.. So for people in ME Its one step by moving to canada. The next step for them would be to come back to middle east and get higher salary and live good life. Some might prefer to go to USA or stay in Canada itself.
Many people might ask this question " why people go to middle east then ?". As i mentioned, the answer to this question is that tax free income, security, best of infrastructures and ease of getting entry. Its good place to earn money. Its best place for business. Its good for labour class people who are not earning much in india and they make good money comparitively ( with reservations).
I believe anyone from ME will agree with me with most of the points. Anyone coming from ME is not expecting dollars on arrivals but i guess every one here does motivation to settle down in a place where we dont have similar insecurities. Where we can dream of future. Dubai doens't let you plan even for next 5 years. Anyone who migrates to canada and when he is told that it will take 2 years to get online and after that things will start to look better i think for a MEaster its worth the trouble.
Even if someone says that i can do "any job" initially could be good as long as he can keep himself together. I guess that's something staying positive against odds.
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Manjeet Singh
I think most people, were not sure what they wanted, and did not do enough research to aquaint themselves with conditions in the west. All they saw was Hollywood films, imported stuff in special markets in the city and huge suitcases of visiting friends and relations to India from the west. As you have pointed out Sanjeev, 'jara bhaiya se gyan lekar aana ki Kanada jane ke liye kya karna hota hai' is the only thought that comes to mind.......never, WHY oh WHY does chote miyan want to come to Canada.
Infact, after going thru the posts in the thread why immigrate to Canada, I was sadly surprised to note that in today's world when information is available thru so many media, even educated people, internet savvy persons, persons who are supposedly in good positions professionally just decide to come to Canada with so many illusions. They say better quality of life, without knowing what they mean by it, they say better future/education for children without ever analysing what exactly is better education and better future, and yes, more money, as if in Canada, instead of maple syrup from maple trees, you get dollars falling down!
I think the first thing is to define the reasons why one wants to come to Canada, and Jake's topic was really good - but not a single person could give an analytical or thought out reply. They all wrote as if they were reading the chapters/index page of a book without having read the book itself. People from middle east have written reasons like no possibility of being able to buy a property - I say is that so necessary so as to give away other good things in life. They talk about rights - as a common man, what rights does one enjoy in his daily life? Can he go against the boss and disobey him ? Even the senior persons in the sponsorship scandal could not do it for the fear of their bosses - so what rights do they enjoy?
I have realized that to be successful, one has to have a goal, and be aware of his own strengths. It is no use pursuing a goal when you have the knowledge that you do not have the strength. It is no use writing 'we will do any job' and then saying 'oh no, I can't clean the toilets', or 'bhai khana to biwi hi banana janti hai, hum to chai bhi nahi bana sakte'
So, bahut zaroori hai yeh sochna ki talassh kis ki hai, or jiski hai, us manzil tak pahunchne ke liye jo rastaa apnana hai, who manjoor hai ya nahin?
I totally agree with Manjeet. Look chandresh kehna bahut easy hai but ishey aapne par lagao toh pata chale. If I’m not wrong you’re also coming from Singapore??? Can we ask you why you decided to come to Canada? As you have a good knowledge of CAN thru media (which we educated people don’t have
)!!!!!You wrote that you sadly surprised??? Why? What were your answer when we asked you why you immigrate Canada. What were your goals??? Why do you think all immigrants have bookish knowledge only
!!! All are well wisher of themselves. As from my point of view kahan challenges nahi hai? But the successful people are those who accept these challenges & fight to achieve it.
Hope you take it in a healthy spirit
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Visit-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CanadianDesan/
Hi Friends,
Till now, we have only couple of 'real' replies to the thread, rest is 'the same story'. Requesting to all those Desis who have been here for 3-4 years or more.
Please contribute and tell us: HAVE YOU GOT, WHAT YOU HAD COME FOR?
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Sanjeev Manocha, MBA
Real Estate Sales Representative
Accredited Buyer Representative (ABR)
Re/Max West Realty Inc, Brokerage
96, Rexdale Blvd., Toronto
Mobile: 416-843-7600
Office: 416-745-2300
http://www.manocharealty.com" rel="nofollow">LINK
NO, NO and NO
I came here solely for my son's better (?????) education.. and that purpose has been defeated.. here in schools you will find everything but education
Thanks and regards.
Biomed
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"Change before you have to" : Jack Welch
hi this may be for those already in Canada but thought my response may make sense.
I have just got my interview waiver and now canada seems like a reality considering its been almost 3 years since i first applied.
Both my husband and me did some hard thinking about our decision to migrate. I have visited US in 2000, thought it was nice and applied for immigration to Canada before returning to India. Thereafter got married and luckily my husband was as interested in it so we continued to pursue it.
We are both doing extremely well in India and know its going to be a dog's life in Canada atleast initially.But the reasons we want to come there are - some practical some maybe even bizzare
the bizzare ones first..
1. We both love travelling...it seems to us that we may have better access to international travel if we lived outside of India. We love the outdoors and the camping..backpaking and stuff like that.
2. We would like to inculcate strongly the same love for the outdoors and travel in our kids when we have kids
3. Love the idea of living in an unpolluted , clean place, with a lot of natural beauty around. That would dramatically better our quality of life..just these simple things like fresh air, clean water, great sunsets, the fall colors, we want to enjoy the simple pleasures of life evryday rather than wait for the 'one' day when we will finally be happy . :-)
4. Would love to have our folks, friends and relatives over to see the place sometime and share the canadian life with them too whenever possible
Now the practical reasons..
1. would rather have kids who have a well rounded personality with varied and 'out of the box' educational courses and give them a choice to really design what they would like to study rather than pick what is available to them in india
2. Have a business idea in mind(dream really) which after loads of homework seems more viable in canada than in India! lets see!!!
3. Would like to live a life that is not too stressful..(we are ok with not being rich, just having enough to live comfortably, if big money happens on the way..great but if not great..)As long as the basic needs are met, we have good home in a decent locality to live in, opportunities for our kids..that would be just fine
4. Eventually want to retire and live in place that is peaceful, more of a countryside less of a city with enough to take care of us in our old age.
To ensure that things dont go too awry, we have bought a house in India that will generate rent as a saving for us here. Have built enough contacts to come and pick up where we left off in case we dont make it in canada.
Knowing we have a choice to come back and not worry gives us the confidence to give our best to what life will come up with in Canada. have decided that life is going to be tough for the first couple of years but we are going to enjoy the struggle and see how much we can stretch ourselves and how much tenacity we have. Life is always going to be tough in differnt ways but this has a goal and a purpose so we are going to give it all we have ....and the rest as they say...que sera sera.......
Uljhi hui zindagi hai, bigdi uhi takdeer hai
Ek haara hua shaks hun magar jeene ki aarzoo hai
Kushiya banke phool, khilli thi kabhi
Phir waqt guzarte hi murjha bhi gayi
Dil ki har umeed mit chuki hai
Maine zamane se aur zamane ne mujhse tauba ki hai
Ab to bas tanhayee hi arsoo hai
Ek haara hua shaks hun magar jeene ki aarzoo hai
Raham karna Muqaddar ki fitrat me nahi hai
Jaanta hun kushiya meri kismat me nahi hai
Ek beraham zindagi hai, ek zakhmi ruh hai
Ek haara hua shaks hun magar jeene ki aarzoo hai
Magar phir bi, Aaj muskarane ko ji karta hai
Nameed dil ki aakhri umeed tu hai
Ek haara hua shaks hun magar jeene ki aarzoo hai
Hara Hua Shaks Hoon - kehne ko software engineer - kar raha labour job hoon
CANADA IS GOOD FOR MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE BACK IN INDIA AND IF PEAPLE ARE EARNING GOOD IN INDIA , INDIA PROVIDES ALL THE FACILITIES SAME AS IN CANADA.
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You can complain because roses have thorns or you can rejoice because thorns have roses.
