Posted on: 01-07-05 17:33:56
May be I might be jumping the gun coz i cannot tolerate imbeciles trying to portray united states is superior and better than canada all the time, i am tired of that mentality. If anybody comes to me and tells me that the states treats immigrants better than canada then i shall probably change my mindset on that (No im not talking about finding a job is better and all that) but im a 100% confident that thats not the case.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>So.. according to you anyone who says that the US is superior to >>canada is an imbecile? I am not sure how you plan to have an >>intelligent dicussion with that attitude. There are certainly things that >>the US does better than Canada and the other way around. Canadians >>are lucky that they share a border with the US. It certainly saves >>them a lot of cash when it comes to defense. As for the US treating >>immigrants, having lived in the US for a long time, I can tell you that >>the treatment is no different.. I would even argue that there are >>more opportunities and many more structures that enable immigrants >>to be successful.
So quoting the pakistan statment u wrote what i can interpret is that america is manipulating pakistan .
-------------------------------------------------
>> Yes, you should interpret it that way.. exactly what I am saying. If you think the US is friendly with pakistan because pakistan is some torch of freedom.. then you are mistaken..
Secondly when you have a split you always have a majority, a minority and may be a section of undecided, hence my statement that majority voted for kerry, it could be 50.1% but it still is a majority.
---------------------------------
I am not sure politics works this way..
____________________________________________________________
I am totally sure now that people like you are the reason why we have an unbalanced world with rich and the poor. So many people dying of poverty and hunger. I guess then according to you the people doing the LIVE 8 concert are stupid that they wanna make poverty history.what a bunch of morons eh!
------------------------------------------
>> I think what people like me do is bring clarity. As much as you would >>like to sit tomorrow and watch the Live 8 concerts and feel good about >>your contribution to getting rid of world hunger, the reality is that the >>money never gets to the people who need and lands up in the pockets >>of those african dictators who need to buy yet another royce. The >>unbalanced world of rich and poor is not because of people like me.. it >>is because of lack of accountability of world leaders(if you want to call >>them that) and lack of empowerment of the people. So.. yes.. people
>> doing the Live 8.. is a good thought but I would suggest that if they >> really want to make a difference then they should do a little more
>> than have concerts and sing to glory. So.. they are not stupid.. rather
>> have little understanding of the realities on the ground.
>> But.. sure..
>> for people like you.. giving a few bucks.. watching the concert and
>> walking away thinking that you have done your part to cure world's
>> problems.. it is a great concert.. because.. you can get rid of your
>> guilt and can be happy with yourself. For people like me.. we are not
>> sure everything is that simple.. that is the difference..
This was the the meaning of my "no place else mentality', where i can make nuclear weapons but if you india makes it then we dont wanna do business with you, we will make sure we make you an outcast.
Bxmca.........if this is not what you interpreted than i'll take back what i said.
>> India has nuclear weapons and the economy is booming.. if that is
>> what being an outcast means.. then I sure many countries would kill
>> to be in that place. And.. I am not sure what is wrong with the
>> approach.. every country tries to protect its interest. India is no
>> different. Look at how India has managed to keep the insugency in
>> Sir lanka going for 20 years. I am not sure if countries like Iraq and >> Iran or north korea should have nuclear weapons. They are unstable
>> states. If Israel with the help of the US had not destroyed the Iraq's >> only nulcear reactor.. the outcome today would have been very
>> different. Saddam would have very likely used the nasty weapon..
>> that is a reality.. so.. dont be so fast to judge the US for what it does
>> because given the chance .. India would do exactly the same.
------------------------------------------
>> I think what people like me do is bring clarity.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what people like you do is stop people from actually contributing to the cause by telling them stories of money never reaching the needy and the poor......how many charitable organisations or NGO's have you actually been associated to?
Secondly for a split second assuming that most of the money is eaten away by those dictators i would be still happy if a dollar would get to them of the 10 i would have or anybody would have contributed. Coz i believe something is better than nothing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, you should interpret it that way.. exactly what I am saying. If you think the US is friendly with pakistan because pakistan is some torch of freedom.. then you are mistaken
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am under the impression that Musharraf is manipulating america!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So.. yes.. people
>> doing the Live 8.. is a good thought but I would suggest that if they >> really want to make a difference then they should do a little more
>> than have concerts and sing to glory. So.. they are not stupid.. rather
>> have little understanding of the realities on the ground.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree they should do more. Atleast they are using their talent to raise awareness and money and i think this is a very good way to start. Ask yourself if you have done anythin to actually help or contribute towards the betterment of the needy? Judging from your response that money never gets to anybody.... you would have not. I can give you examples of what U2 or Elton John or angelina jolie or paul mccarteny are doing on to do their bit fi you want.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But.. sure..
>> for people like you.. giving a few bucks.. watching the concert and
>> walking away thinking that you have done your part to cure world's
>> problems.. it is a great concert.. because.. you can get rid of your
>> guilt and can be happy with yourself.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First the tickets were free second it was an awareness concert and third people who actually do help, suffer from the guilt that they are not doing enough on their part and that it is their moral responsibility to do so.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For people like me.. we are not
>> sure everything is that simple.. that is the difference..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i think that it is very simple for you coz your type believes that it is the responsiblity of the world leaders and other rich people so why should i bother with the whole thing and should console myself everytime i see someone suffering that some "world leader" will help them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And.. I am not sure what is wrong with the
>> approach.. every country tries to protect its interest.
I am not sure if countries like Iraq and >> Iran or north korea should have nuclear weapons. They are unstable >> states.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont you think you are contradicting yourself?
what makes you think that iraq, iran or north korea shouldnt be allowed nuclear weapons. The world should be fair and square.
If you think they are unstable then how different is india or pakistan.
Iran wants nuclear weapons to protect itself from iraq and so did iraq to protect itself from iran. THe basic reason is the same for every country.
Did you think india was going to form a nuclear charitable oraganisation and start distributing our warheads once we had made them and not use them for self protection!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saddam would have very likely used the nasty weapon..
>> that is a reality.. so.. dont be so fast to judge the US for what it does
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think u skipped school when they were teaching the second world war history when your high and mighty US bombed hiroshima and nagasaki killing thousands and leaving thousands with the mutations and sideeffects. I guess you dint think of that.
and to make matters clear i dont think saddam attacked pearl harbour.
Given the circumstances you would not think US was unstable at that time and maye be might become like that again in the future.
This is like me killing you in self defence becuase i "thought" you were going to kill me.
And I am hoping the discussion has not become personal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Progress comes from deviation".
On a side note if anybody finds my comments or posts offensive or irritating please ignore it and if that still bothers you; please write to me and I will demonstrate.
Quote:
Orginally posted by Azazf
I think what people like you do is stop people from actually contributing to the cause by telling them stories of money never reaching the needy and the poor......how many charitable organisations or NGO's have you actually been associated to?
Secondly for a split second assuming that most of the money is eaten away by those dictators i would be still happy if a dollar would get to them of the 10 i would have or anybody would have contributed. Coz i believe something is better than nothing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>What I am saying are not stories.. it is a fact that the money that is >>rasied rarely reaches the people who need it most. I am not stopping >>anyone from contributing.. but let us all understand the conditions >>and not live in this fantasy and self-satisfaction that we have done >>out part. The reality is that your part is rarely felt by anyone who >>needs it. If it isnt the silly dictator.. that eats the cash it is the >>administration of the charity that takes most of it since you need to >>pay people to run the organization.
>>And.. I am not sure how my association with charity and NGO's have >>to do with anything. It seems to me that you are saying that if >>someone doesnt drive a car.. they have no right to have a view on >>pollution.. Sorry.. I dont buy that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am under the impression that Musharraf is manipulating america!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>You can be under that impression.. but I would say that based on >>track record.. the US certainly has a lot more experience with taking >>Pakistan for a ride. The day Musharraf becomes a liability.. he will >>become another Zia flying in the air.. with boxes of mangos..that will >>be the end..
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I agree they should do more. Atleast they are using their talent to raise awareness and money and i think this is a very good way to start. Ask yourself if you have done anythin to actually help or contribute towards the betterment of the needy? Judging from your response that money never gets to anybody.... you would have not. I can give you examples of what U2 or Elton John or angelina jolie or paul mccarteny are doing on to do their bit fi you want.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>I find it facinating that you equate helping the needy in terms of >>money. I have perhaps done much more than you.. I can tell you >>that.. and my work does not include attending a "free" concert and >>throwing in a few bucks and driving home thinking that I have made >>the world a better place. AS for U2 and Elton John.. how many are >>there?
>>My question to you is that.. if the concert has a price for the ticket.. >>say "$40/person" so.. that would raise $1.4,000 people.. would >>you pay to go?
----------------------------------------------------
First the tickets were free second it was an awareness concert and third people who actually do help, suffer from the guilt that they are not doing enough on their part and that it is their moral responsibility to do so.
>> maybe you already answered my previous question..that fact that >>the concert was free is your first point tells me a lot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i think that it is very simple for you coz your type believes that it is the responsiblity of the world leaders and other rich people so why should i bother with the whole thing and should console myself everytime i see someone suffering that some "world leader" will help them.
>> Wrong again.. I think the world leader is the last person who you can >> expect to deal with problems in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont you think you are contradicting yourself?
what makes you think that iraq, iran or north korea shouldnt be allowed
nuclear weapons. The world should be fair and square.
>> These are nuclear weapons we are talking about not toys. Somehow
>> I am not sure that the world would be safe with these(iran, NK)
>> people with a nuclear switch..
If you think they are unstable then how different is india or pakistan.
Iran wants nuclear weapons to protect itself from iraq and so did iraq to protect itself from iran. THe basic reason is the same for every country.
Did you think india was going to form a nuclear charitable oraganisation and start distributing our warheads once we had made them and not use them for self protection!!
>> Yes.. i agree.. India and Pakistan are unstable and if you watch the >>news.. I believe pakistan had a lot to do with North korea getting >>nuclear weapons..as well as Iran.. this exactly why.. these countries >> should not have it. They are a like a bunch of immature kids who think
>> they found a new toy.. and want to shoot and see what happens..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think u skipped school when they were teaching the second world war history when your high and mighty US bombed hiroshima and nagasaki killing thousands and leaving thousands with the mutations and sideeffects. I guess you dint think of that.
>> Humm.. I am very aware of the US bombing of hiroshima and >>nagasaki. As a matter of fact, I have spent a good chunk of my life in >>Japan and know the history quite well. Without understanding >>Japanese history it would be very difficult for you to understand the >>bombing. From your comments it is very clear that you dont have the >> slightest idea of japanese history. As you comtemplate the impact of >>the bombing.. you should also look into Japanese atrocities in >>Manchuria, China, Korea and other places.
and to make matters clear i dont think saddam attacked pearl harbour.
Given the circumstances you would not think US was unstable at that time and maye be might become like that again in the future.
This is like me killing you in self defence becuase i "thought" you were going to kill me.
>> Actually Sadam didnt attack much.. cause he was busy building the >> 9000000 palaces that silly guy needed. He needed to go.. good he is >>gone. Come to think of it.. the current US policy is that of "first >>strike".. which after 9/11.. I think is good for the US. It is time these >>crazies in the world be taught a lesson. And if you can be.. why not be >> the big dog on the block. Any country would give their life to be in the >> position the US is in today.
>>
And I am hoping the discussion has not become personal.
>> never..
Quote:
Orginally posted by bxmca
>>What I am saying are not stories.. it is a fact that the money that is >>rasied rarely reaches the people who need it most.
This is probably very true . I read an article in todays montreal gazette that Swazilands foreign aid is 30 something mill. Out of which royal parties,balls ect take up 19.6 mill. Last year the king of swaziland apparently purchased a Maybach for himself and bmw's for each of his 10 wives/consorts/whatever
another link about this
http://www.aegis.com/news/ips/2005/IP050205.html
Also apparently Robert mugaabe rides in a merc 600sl coustom made in germany ...about 2 km/litre fuel consumption(apparently he has another vehicle following his...which carries the fuel)
This is not to say that I support bxmca's view. Atleast the concert created awareness about the problem...and we are debating about the same, people are writing about what the despots drive, how the wealth is squandered....and alternatives to monetary aid etc.
I think the price of silence is much higher. The solution probably lies somewhere in between(as always) the 2 extreme stands. Awareness will hopefully help us find it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Recommended Services- Servicedomino.com
http://www.servicedomino.com
I am an idiot
Just take a look at the forums in http://www.discovervancouver.com" rel="nofollow">LINK, a site that was meant to provide useful information to immigrants/newcomers to Vancouver. These days the standard of the forum has detoriarated so much that I don't like to visit the site any more, with all kinds of racial and obscene discussions going on there.
This is an example of what can happen to a forum if everyone was free to post anything they liked, and nobody was around to control it.
I'm glad that most members in CD are a responsible lot compared to other similar forums, and the mods have been doing an excellent job.
Quote:
Orginally posted by jughead
Just take a look at the forums in http://www.discovervancouver.com" rel="nofollow">LINK, a site that was meant to provide useful information to immigrants/newcomers to Vancouver. These days the standard of the forum has detoriarated so much that I don't like to visit the site any more, with all kinds of racial and obscene discussions going on there.
This is an example of what can happen to a forum if everyone was free to post anything they liked, and nobody was around to control it.
I'm glad that most members in CD are a responsible lot compared to other similar forums, and the mods have been doing an excellent job.
As much as it is easy to run and hide from the "obscene" discussions you speak of, I am not sure if that works. Regardless, the only way to stop racial discussion is to expose it for what it is based on ideas and arguements. I am not sure this 'I know what is best for everyone moderator' approach is the best.
It is what it is.. I suppose.. and so is life..
