I feel that desis who have lived abroad and have interspersed with different nationalities and have worked in professional organizations are seasoned and different from desis who have worked in not so professional organizations in India .

I have expreienced good and bad managers in desis and feel that time and environment seasons everyone - a desi manager would not remain so desi after 10 years in Canada .

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Fido.

Jake et al.

- Statement #1 holds good.

- Know what, it is the jumpy and sissy attitude (its common regardless of background, but how one is successful to maintain a poker face matters) that sticks out the baddies really bad in mgmt and often becomes difficult to retract once exposed.

This needs some exercise and environment being the biggest teacher will do the needful as time passes and one goes through a string of encounters where such qualities are openly commented to succumb an oppurtunity to recover, I spoke with my manager openly couple of times instead of remaining a avid boot licker.

- Let me give you an example, you might have seen this very funny movie "Office Space", see how the manager reacts despite several blows and see how he sustains his impudicity along with softer arrogance (is it really an oxymoron)..

- I was literally startled when my (non-desi) manager brought so many subtle things he observed into discussions while doing a year end performance review. That was really an eye opener to know how keen these folks observe and record our activities while maintaining a cool temperament, and all such observations surface when required, I took it positive.... None of my desi managers ever committed to provide a constructive feedback to correct me / collegues in my life.. is it not part of the management style. We probabaly tend to look into more practical and instantlytangible benefits while overlooking the several small things..

Oh..I am rampage or what, Mmh, I was spooked lately and hence.... ) ...

Quote:

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Originally posted by jake3d

Quote:

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Originally posted by JRF
1. Social / academic environment. Needless to say how many of us read maslow's theory and other organizational behavioural subject seriously during their academics, atleast not me because I didn't know the value by then.

2. An encouraging environment that motivates such styles (the degree really matters here in place of existence).

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Considering your above 2 points which of the below statements is more true according to you.

A desi who is schooled/experienced in a NA management style is as good or bad as his peers here?

OR

Desis are bad managers.

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The cowards never started,
The weak died on the way,
Only the strong arrived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yK1i9cLAMM

I'm on the brink of bailing out of my work for the day. I've got a feeling, this discussion might develop to some useful pointers that might eventually to review at some point.. We'll atleast cherish our posts.

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The cowards never started,
The weak died on the way,
Only the strong arrived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yK1i9cLAMM

Very Interesting Topic for discussion !.

It is dangerous to identify a particular race to make character traits on them. Before we go down to the question of how is our boss ?, we should ask the question of how are we to our subordinates.

As a fully trained HR person(from XIM, Mumbai a sister organization of XLRI), I can guarantee all of you and again reinforce what Maharaj has stated quite a few time till now is that it all boils down to organizations culture.

Having worked for Lala companies(both in India and US - Jewish owners) to MNC's from Total to GE it boils down to the organization(s) corporate culture.

In GE there is 360 Deg evaluation of every individual. You are appraised by your boss, your subordinate, your colleagues at the same level at other functions with in the organization.If a constant feed back system which involves constant corrective action is available then no Damager will try to get beyond their means to harass anybody.

I can give the classic case of an organization I worked while I was in India and that too it is in Chennai. It is nearly billion dollar company now and it is involved in Manufacturing. This company had a policy handbook and it was shared with you while you joined the organisation. It clearly outlines the rules of organization and also the feedback mechanism(ombudsman) if things went out of hand. Many of times I have found that a real talent would have been lost due to differences between the boss/subordinate and the organization either transfers the individual to another division/team and retains his talent. Retaining talent is KRA for the HR in that company. Hence I do not buy the bull that Indian companies are inferior to that of NA companies in terms of Conflict management or talent retainment. If I may say so the Indian HR practises in many companies(exceptions are always there) are far ahead of many Canadian corporates I've seen here. There is a difference in approach between a services organization say for eg:I.T and a manufacturing organization. I've always felt that the maturity levels of a manager who has grown through a manufacturing organization to be much higher than a IT company. The reason being he has to deal with people of various levels right from the shopfloor to those who are decision makers. While in a IT company they tend to move with a similar crowd. As the OP said the growth happens due to their technical abilities, project management-deadline achievement abilities than their interpersonal skills, motivational, leadership skills. Many a times the guy who walks the talk earns the respect of his subordinates than the guy who enforces the rules. The best manager is one who makes his subordinate to give their 110% without promising them any financial rewards. This happens when the person wants to make things happen on his own. This is where the proper identification of Leadership abilities matters before promotion of any one for managerial roles.

Why is that companies like Unilever is looking at Indian HLL for all its key global positions ?. Has anybody studied the corporate culture of TATA or even RIL. Yes RIL is a Baniya company, when was the last time you've heard that they fired somebody?.The way RIL operates is by buying the individuals loyalty with a fair financial compensation. If you have very good pay far beyond that of the competition/market levels you'll put up with S@#t. I've done a few case studies by performing organization climate studies in Mumbai India.Here you as an external individual walk around an organization and use methods like chit-chat, questionaire, sitting through meetings as an observer, filling in on gossip and making a report. How many in your organizations in Canada have encountered a organizational climate study?.

To make a long story short, I would like to summarize my view on this very good topic as follows:

1.We should never generalize on the individual and it is the organizations corporate culture which influences the individual. If your boss is a kiss A@S to his boss, he will expect you to be one.

2.Invididuals who have an inferiority complex/low self esteem will always look at a highly qualified individual/skilled subordinate as a potential threat to his throne. He will always use means methods to rub it on his subordinate.

3.If the subordinate has options to move on(like the current situation in India with plenty of jobs) he will show his boss what a numbskull he is/was.

4.More than being true leaders, the vindictiveness of individuals is more important. I know many cases where the boss contacts the new organization/boss of his ex-subordinate and tries to potray a bad picture about his ex-subordinate. It would even extend to the level of law suit, advertisement in newspaper or even spreading rumours in the market. But a good leader will always read through the carnage and identify the truth about the propaganda.

5.As a good friend of mine always said, the person who knows the true value of a diamond is a trained/experienced diamond merchant. As you are diamond you cannot expect everybody to differentiate between a diamond and a glass stone.


Lastly and least after working with all types of Desis, White of Irish, Canadian, British, Australian, Dutch; African-American, Jewish bosses I've come to the conclusion that the best bosses(Did I contradict myself from the first line of this post, Yes I did !) in the www are THE GUJARATI'S BOSSES.

If you are good and if you make things happen it is always one way with them. You can get in but you cannot get out. They work upon your family by making relationship with your wife, children and attending every death, marriage and child birth in your family. Yes you may call it as not professional in the true American sense but can you give me any other reason why Reliance(I've never worked for RIL, But would love to work for them if I get an opportunity) is growing like hell (post Dhirubhai/post bribe/post license raj)?.

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Speech by Thomas Friedman of The New York Times....

"When we were young kids growing up in America, we were told to eat our
vegetables at dinner and not leave them. Mothers said, 'think of the
starving children in India and finish the dinner.' And now I tell my
children: 'Finish your maths homework. Think of the children in India
who would make you starve, if you don't.'"

Good post Shankaracharya.

I still do not agree with your generalizations about gujju bosses . However, I agree with the gist of your post especially that good managers/bosses are not contsricted by race/ethinicity etc...rather by a combination of variables such as opportunity(e.g exposure to correct corporate culture), aptitude(e.g: superior technical ability does not always translate to superior manegerial ability), abilities(e.g: people-skills, empathy, motivated/motivator) etc.

Hopefully, we can turn this thread into what makes a good manager instead of 'Desi Bosses are bad or Desis are bad managers'.

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http://www.servicedomino.com

Thank You Jake 3D.

Honestly we should turn this discussion on its head by making it from a subordinates view point. Making it a IQ versus EQ discussion. The ideal topic would be is \"How to be a Winner in any Organization ?., that is how make your boss your new subordinate ?.This would involve many of us to put our ears onto the floor of the organization to hear the sound and differentiate it from the noise. It is a skill to know which way the wind is blowing and aligning ourself with the winning camp. It is also another skill to build bridges beyond your boss even to the level of the top boss. We need to interact withour boss and engage him with good humour. This might involve playing golf with him on the weekends or playing poker or visiting the local strip joint for a beer if it is required.

In India there is a position called \"Executive Assistant\" to the CEO. Some of the US based organizations also have this spot. Typically a MBA with a few years experience in the organization is retained to this spot. Even though it pays less there is a huge competition between graduates to get this spot. The reasons being that this is CEO in training spot.You have access to the top boss(es) and this helps you in the long terms growth. If we talk about middle management politics, the kind of politics which go on at higher level is unbelievable. It involves deceit, back stabbing, Kiss A@# to the level of providing/organizing sexual favors or even sourcing Drugs. This happens both in India and US of A.

The reason I highlighted Gujaratis is that most of them are Entrepreneurial in their mind set. Even in a corporate setting if they are ideally compensated financially they will not make much fuss about growth. Their goal in life is mostly Financial success. Hence mostly they do not have this Ego problem with others.As long you keep raking in the moolah either through higher sales, better productivity or cost control they are happy. Many of them are non-confrontational and less ego centered. Hence you have less friction in a corporate setting than with many others.

My 2.5 cents on this is that if we need to succeed we need to be a Chameleon. Hope there were no spelling errors in this post.

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Speech by Thomas Friedman of The New York Times....

"When we were young kids growing up in America, we were told to eat our
vegetables at dinner and not leave them. Mothers said, 'think of the
starving children in India and finish the dinner.' And now I tell my
children: 'Finish your maths homework. Think of the children in India
who would make you starve, if you don't.'"

Hahahahahahahahha....................It is a good joke in the year 2006 Mr. Shankaracharya that you mentioned your posting gujuratis bosses are good bosses on the planet........................In my strong openion They are highly self centered and core to only one point.............That is money in any currency ..........Ruppes, $ ,pounds, euro or what ever currency you name it on the planet.

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Loser Two beacuse could not get H1B, so next option "Immigration to Canada"