What do you do for a living , Das-FX?

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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.

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Orginally posted by Das-FX

For instance, if I hire an Indian man, how will he deal with working with women? What if a woman is his boss or so if a black person is his boss? Indian men are not always accepting of stuff like that.

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You will never change that. Hiring someone with whom you are more familiar with makes sense. Given all other things being equal, I would always choose someone with a Canadian education over a foreign educated person. It makes sense. I understand the Canadian educated system so I would feel more comfortable with someone from it.

In terms of culture, if I hire someone from India, I have no idea how they will fit in with the rest of my staff. For instance, if I hire an Indian man, how will he deal with working with women? What if a woman is his boss or so if a black person.

How is it that Indians who get jobs in US are able to do so well ? Are they not Americans who recruit them? Is it not a different culture in America ?

There are many Indians who are doing so well in the companies they work for.

How is it that generally when a well-qualified engineer with good experience comes here, he is not given a job in his field? After he works as a security person or in some store or some labour job then only he is considered to have Canadian experience & he is given a good job in engineering.

I know lots of people in Canada who have gone thro' this.

I am not an engineer so it is not a case of sour grapes. I had been in computer sales in India & got a job in computer sales here also although not at the same level. I got a job within a month of my coming to Canada.

As Das-FX said, having good communication skills, resume is very important. I agree with that & it is true in any country.


Thanks.

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At the outset, let me say that I appreciate the efforts put in by Jake, Crenshaw and now Das-Fx to bring some positive ness to this forum about life in Canada. And if I am saying that, it should mean a lot since I am perhaps one of the biggest failures in Canada.

However, not withstanding the noble purpose behind your postings – one thing I find common in all three of you is that you guys fail to relate to the general masses and their experiences. While it is best if you speak from your own experiences, (and if you guys have noted, I always refer to my personal experiences in life when I write something,) but at the same time, your own experiences cannot be in isolation of experiences of the general masses. Therefore, it is not complete truth if you do not take into account the general masses experience and keep hammering on some ‘published statistics’ to be quoted (and at that time I start wondering if you guys do not read local newspapers atall and have no ideas what various agencies, both government and non-government are admitting openly). It would be much appreciated if instead of saying that the others are ill-prepared, and lack statistical proofs, you would say – yes this is true, but this is what I did and achieved success. Instead of always saying what is wrong, start telling them what is right and how should they overcome their problems and shortcomings.

I appreciate the way Jake writes and explains things – he speaks only for himself and does not generalise his success, nor does he object to some generalisations that many others make. Without directly objecting to generalisations made by others, he simply tells his view, experiences and advises. I have learned a lot from him and changed a lot of views that I had about Canada based on his explanations.

Crenshaw has always brought the positives of Canada into this forum – but while I appreciate his views and efforts, he definitely becomes irrational with two things – command over English language and published statistics. It is common knowledge that not all successful men in Canada have good command over their language and communication, let alone English language, and similarly, no government publishes statistics which speak bad about the administration. Many things in life are not documented but still known by masses (like bribes in Indian government offices!)

Das has tried to bring in another refreshing wave – but seemingly in an arrogant manner – a very Canadian manner in general immigrant’s view. The thought is welcome, but not the manner – specially after reading pages and pages of his duel with prabhub on another thread. Wise men never argue with fools but unfortunately his explanation which could have ended in one page, extended to an argument of 5 pages of one thread in a day (which I am sure would be a record on this site!)

Having said that, let me analyse what you guys have written on this thread and also provide you my personal experiences for you to comment upon or advise:

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Want Important information? Das-FX is here to help!

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Greetings,

Many (not all) have not achieved the life they were hoping for in this great country. What is to blame? Many of you blame is on racism, which is an easy thing to do as it shifts the blame for failure from oneself to someone else. Although racism exists, it is not as prevalent as some of your would suggest.

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In my humble opinion, I believe many of you came here without proper information and too high expectations. The streets in Canada are not lined with gold, job are not as abundant as advertised, life is very expensive and the culture is very different.

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To survive in a new land, one must adapt. This country will not adapt to you, you have to adapt to it. It is evident in nature and it is evident in humans as well. If you cannot integrate and “Canadianize” yourselves, you will forever be a foreigner in this country. I am not suggesting you forget your heritage, beliefs and roots, but you must adjust your way of life and your way of thinking.

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My parents have managed to instill the values of their Indian heritage, they have passed down their culture and religion, however, they have also allowed us, and themselves to embrace the overall Canadian culture as well.

This is not India; the Indian way is not the best way! If it were, then why would you have left? Obviously, when you left, you were seeking some kind of change.

I hope to provide some very candid advice. Some of what I will say may be considered harsh, but life is harsh. I consider myself an expert on Canada; I've had a great fascination with this country and indeed a great love affair with it. I have what I have today because of this country.

If anyone has any specific questions, please feel free to message me personally or post it on this thread. Good luck!

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Creating a good Canadian Resume! - 1st impressions
Resumes are an important piece of gaining employment in Canada. They serve as an advertisement of you to employers. It is the important first step in getting a job.

There is a fine balance between a good resume and a bad resume. Just like an ad in a newspaper, it only needs to catch the attention of a potential buyer (or employer). You want to provide enough detail to allow an employer to be interested, but you don't want to give your whole life story such that the employer gets bored and uninterested. The actually selling of your self occurs in the interview. The resume only gets the customer in the store (so to speak).

From my experience and discussions, I would say that a resume is looked at on average for 10 to 15 seconds before the first cut is made.

Employers get hundreds (sometimes thousands) of resume so they do not have time to read each one in detail. During the first scan, the employer looks at the resume on a technical level.

Things that will get your resume thrown in the garbage right away:
1) Spelling mistakes and other grammatical errors

There is no excuse for this, employers don't care if you are new to the country or that English (or French) isn't your first language. To avoid such errors, please make sure you proofread it! Get not one, but two other, NATIVE English speakers to proofread it. Do not get your Indian friend who was born and brought up in India. Indian English is very different from Canadian English. Chances are your Indian friend will not pick up the errors you have made.

If you make even one mistake, you could see your resume in the garbage. This is so immportant, I can't stress this enough! Take the time and send out an error free document.

2) Poor formatting

If a resume is difficult to read, with no sense of logical organization, the employer will not waste his or her time. You need to organize the information concisely such that the information flows. You should have your information in chronological order; your fonts and margins should be consistent throughout. It should be a clean document, remember you are using this to sell yourself.

3) Resume is too long!

If a resume is too long, it will be thrown out. A good resume can be done in just one page. At most, it should be two pages. DO NOT scale down your font or widen margins to fit in all the information. If the information does not fit with standard page settings, then it is too long. Time is money, so employers don’t want to waste it.

Just think, are you likely to read an ad in a newspaper that was more than a page long? NO! Conversely, if your resume is too short and doesn't provide enough information, the employer will have no choice but to throw it away.

4) No contact information

I have seen many resumes that don't list any contact information, if you don't put your name and how someone can contact you then it is really useless. Today it is standard to include a telephone number, mailing address and email address.

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Das, Your intent and your efforts are indeed commendable. Unfortunately, there are some limitations to providing advice to new Canadian immigrants from the sub-continent, some quick thoughts.

1. Adaptability - Most ‘desis’ seriously lack the ability to adapt. They are determined to re-create an India wherever they land, rather than understanding the culture of their new home and becoming a part of it. The attitude shows itself up in different forms. One example (just an example) is most immigrants would rather follow a cricket match in faraway India, rather than learn something about the Leafs and hockey in Canada. What could have been a good conversation starter or ice-breaker at the office or socially, is invariably lost. (of course now I’m going to have the next 20 posters asking me if knowledge of ice-hockey is needed to get a job in Canada, but that just shows their inability to ‘get-the-point’). Perhaps Canada’s view of itself as a ‘mosaic’ rather than a ‘melting pot’ is to blame for this lack of adaptability, if you know what I mean.

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2. Language – You’ve highlighted the fact that ‘desis’ don’t proof read their Resumes. While I agree, you have to look beyond that to the use of words and pronounciation at an interview. However, when you tell ‘desis’ that they need to remove regional influences from their language, they interpret it as meaning that a phony accent is ‘required’. The result ends up sounding worse than the original. The bloke then comes back to a forum such as this one, frustrated and starts venting with all sorts of irrational comments. Some go back to wherever they came from (either India or the Middle East) and continue to post irrational negative comments, looking for assurance that they made the ‘right’ decision by leaving Canada. Another new immigrant picks up on the venting, starts to ‘assume’ that Canada has ‘NO’ work that is suitable for him, gets into a dead-end job and the cycle continues.

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3. At the workplace – For those that do get hired: most stick to a desi crowd. I have 2 at my workplace and they hang around together, seemingly most comfortable when they talk to each other in Hindi. They make no attempt to hang out with the other folks. Toronto can be an amazing place, with a variety of cultures, but ‘desis’ have this cultural superiority complex, afraid that they’ll lose their own ‘culture’ if they associate with anyone else.

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Das
Unfortunately, the Indian accent is very difficult for non-Indians to understand. Learning to pronounce and annunciate is critical to your success here. If no one can understand you, then you are dead in the water.

There is no in between, either you are understood or you aren't. Communication skills supercede any technical or academic qualification skills you may have.

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I completely agree! This is one of the biggest mistakes any immigrant can make. This is not exclusive to Indians and it is so bad.

DO NOT; I repeat DO NOT speak in any other language but English or French at the workplace (unless doing business internationally). It is looked upon very badly!

You will not be fired or lose your job, but I can guarantee it will be counted against you during any performance review, and when it is time to consider raises and promotions.

Even if you think you are alone with another person who speaks the language, do not revert to your native tongue. This counts for in the lunchroom as well.

It is considered very rude and should not be done. Although you may feel more comfortable in your native tongue, you aren't doing yourself any favours by not practicing your English.

Also, do not just stick to your own kind. What message does this send? It means you are not a team player and that you are not able to adapt to different working environments.

Bottom line, English and French are the workplace languages so stick to them at all times.

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Chandresh

Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!

yeah Chandresh, I agree with you.

I feel that maybe Das-FX being born & brought up here, might not understand what people who migrate mid-career from India have had to go thro' to come to India. They have come with their life savings & also left behind their families (not only wife & kids but parents, brothers, sisters, etc.) in many cases. Everybody comes with a positive attitude here thinking that maybe in 1-2 years he might get something in his field & of his level. BUt if that does not happen & he has to lead a hand-to-mouth existence it becomes difficult.

While countries like USA give jobs to people based on their Indian experience in many professions, Canada refuses to do that. After couple of years of working in labour jobs, they give jobs to people based on Indian experience. I don't understand this at all.

It is difficult to work under people with half your experience & skills & teaching you how to work as if you are a newcomer.

Thanks.

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Let's make India a better place !