Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 06-09-04 01:13:04
Quote:
Orginally posted by worship
O_N ,
Yes it is 'BIDING MY TIME' as Prof. Henry Higgins would like-propah English
Imagine him trying to figure out that 'Yam and Yen' are letters of the English alphabet
Intransit, thanks but I was not talking about myself......it was more a surprise that people of varied levels of English are sailing in the same boat. Specially since English is the official language of Canada... what I was trying to decipher was, why all this hallabulla about proficiency in English.....I don't find everyone selected, being tops with their English....as per various posts in this forum......so how did they pass thru?? and how are they managing in the job front?? They must be facing acute problems and if so how do they communicate? Speaking Skills are so inportant. Does it have an effect on the type of job they get?
I have all the confidence in my English as I have studied in a Jesuit institution run by British/Italian missionaries but affliliated to the state board.
regards,
Worship
Worship..why dont you use the name Puja
afterall woh itna "Dharmik hain" Now to answer your question abt what kinds of jobs ppl get here. In order to understand this, once should take a look at films dished out by Bollywood ! Take for example the eternal Confused desi fav.. "DDLJ"
"Main, Bhatinda ka rehne wala, 10wi Fail.. aaya tha London ekdum Kadka, ab yahan ka Millionaire ban gaya hoon"
When folks back home in India watch such films they get enamoured by this. So they also take the plunge without solidifying their base (i.e., management skills, english skills etc., ). When they come here, with poor english language skills they are at a severe disadvantage. I can tell this because I hardly find any such folks in big companies. They have to keep their clientale happy and surely would not like to hire ppl with poor english (or french) language skills. As such, such ppl may scrape through the immigration process, but will get crushed (no pun intended) once they enter the Canadian job market. Their only redemption lies in starting their own business ventures (something similar to Anupam Kher in DDLJ).
I would like to give a crude analogy here. Its very similar to the reservation system for SC/ST's in India. They can enter the Universities with hopeless ranks etc., but cannot aspire to attain top management level status unless they compete with the best. In Canada, poorly educated folks in English or French are the SC/ST's. They can enter the system but cannot rise unless they really put in some effort.
You are from a Jesuit instituion... I was from a Canadian Baptist Missionary school
I think the ICSE syllabus is great as it lays emphasis on both Indian (Gurudev Tagore, R K Narayan, K A Abbas, Humayun Kabir) and English authors (Yeats, Shelley, Wordsworth and Gool 'o Shakespeare... "Et Tu Brutus" 
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"Aur Vaise Bhi, Sharafat ki jab kapde utarti hai, sabse zyaada mazaa shareefon ko hi aati hai"....(From The Dirty Picture)
Warning !! SCAM ALERT !!
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=4169 & http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=1379
This is a Useful Health related Tip
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=3865
Please visit
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php for some interesting Information ! (Especially 009.005 )
worship, Ottawa Nerd,
I agree with both of you. ICSE does have an edge over any State Board. I also passed ICSE and feel that it gives you an edge over others, be it in interaction or interviews. By the way, what are your views on CBSE Board? I have heard that their standard is very high, although i don't know what that really means. How would a CBSE product rate with an ICSE product ?
Ayaskant.
Quote:
Orginally posted by Ottawa_Nerd
Quote:
Orginally posted by worship
O_N ,
Yes it is 'BIDING MY TIME' as Prof. Henry Higgins would like-propah English
Imagine him trying to figure out that 'Yam and Yen' are letters of the English alphabet
Intransit, thanks but I was not talking about myself......it was more a surprise that people of varied levels of English are sailing in the same boat. Specially since English is the official language of Canada... what I was trying to decipher was, why all this hallabulla about proficiency in English.....I don't find everyone selected, being tops with their English....as per various posts in this forum......so how did they pass thru?? and how are they managing in the job front?? They must be facing acute problems and if so how do they communicate? Speaking Skills are so inportant. Does it have an effect on the type of job they get?
I have all the confidence in my English as I have studied in a Jesuit institution run by British/Italian missionaries but affliliated to the state board.
regards,
Worship
Worship..why dont you use the name Puja
Now to answer your question abt what kinds of jobs ppl get here. In order to understand this, once should take a look at films dished out by Bollywood ! Take for example the eternal Confused desi fav.. \"DDLJ\"
\"Main, Bhatinda ka rehne wala, 10wi Fail.. aaya tha London ekdum Kadka, ab yahan ka Millionaire ban gaya hoon\"
When folks back home in India watch such films they get enamoured by this. So they also take the plunge without solidifying their base (i.e., management skills, english skills etc., ). When they come here, with poor english language skills they are at a severe disadvantage. I can tell this because I hardly find any such folks in big companies. They have to keep their clientale happy and surely would not like to hire ppl with poor english (or french) language skills. As such, such ppl may scrape through the immigration process, but will get crushed (no pun intended) once they enter the Canadian job market. Their only redemption lies in starting their own business ventures (something similar to Anupam Kher in DDLJ).
I would like to give a crude analogy here. Its very similar to the reservation system for SC/ST's in India. They can enter the Universities with hopeless ranks etc., but cannot aspire to attain top management level status unless they compete with the best. In Canada, poorly educated folks in English or French are the SC/ST's. They can enter the system but cannot rise unless they really put in some effort.
You are from a Jesuit instituion... I was from a Canadian Baptist Missionary school
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Success
To laugh often and much;
To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children;
To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends;
To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others;
To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition;
To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.
This is to have succeeded. Bessie Stanley
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 06-09-04 02:14:19
Guys when it comes to English I would say ICSE beats them all. CBSE has an emphasis on Hindi, which is true as they are affiliated with NCERT.
Suppose a student wishes to appear for state Engineering/Medical entrance exams, then State Board Mathematics and Biology are the best ! (at least for the Andhra Board it is true). When it comes to Physics and Chemistry, ICSE beats any state board. When it comes to commerce/humanities/business programs.. ICSE beats every board hands down.
CBSE Is good uf you wish to appear for Government exams, especially in North India. They are neither as good as ICSE or subdued as State board's. IIT-JEE entrance examinations also follow a similar pattern, though ICSE educated gals and Guyz can crack the Chemistry and Physics papers while state board guys & gals can sail through the Maths papers.
Again CBSE lies somewhere in between. "Na Idhar Ka Na Udhar Ka".. Almost all government funded schools (Kendriya Vidyalaya's) follow the CBSE board. I have no idea abt their standards in English..
Maybe someone who has studied in the CBSE board can shed some light on this
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"Aur Vaise Bhi, Sharafat ki jab kapde utarti hai, sabse zyaada mazaa shareefon ko hi aati hai"....(From The Dirty Picture)
Warning !! SCAM ALERT !!
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=4169 & http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=1379
This is a Useful Health related Tip
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=3865
Please visit
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php for some interesting Information ! (Especially 009.005 )
I beg to disagree with you guys a little bit. YES ICSE & CBSE are considered better as opposed to STATE BOARD, when compared to the overall system of education, the way in wch you write your exams and the the format of syllabus. But it has got no relevance at all when it comes to speaking ENGLISH or proper pronounciation. I do not know what exactly do you guys mean by gujju/bengu/tamil/panju accent. You may have come accross a few gujjus/bengus/tamils/panjus etc., having a typical accent, but it does not neccessarily mean that a person was from STATE BOARD. I know few of the Indians from so called ICSE and CBSE having local accent, when they speak ENGLISH.
As for my case, I am a Gujarati person (not a gujju), and may be to your surprise, a person from gujarati medium school from Maharashtra State Board. I thank both, my elder sister and my Mama, who literally pushed me to improve my english skills, while I was in a gujarati medium school. No wonder, I used to get like 95% in English. I could improve my writing skills, reading skills and pronounciation, by talking to more and more people in English, asking them to correct me if I were wrong in any way, and also by reading lots of books, newspapers and magazines. For me, improving my skills in english was my passion. I had many obstacles in doing so. There were many people, who instead of correcting me honestly, made my life difficult. There were many of my friends from gujarati medium school who would call me, "ANGREZ", and avoid speaking with me. But that didn't affect me.
What I mean by this is that, it is upto a particular person to improve his/her skills, not only in ENGLISH but for that matter any language. If you talk to me, I am sure you won't believe that I was from a gujarati medium school. But hey, you know what, I have found many english medium school students, making too many grammatical errors.
Now abt your second point for this as an obstacle in getting a job. Well to a some degree, it does matter. But as O_N mentioned, we should not try to immitate their accent, as long as we speak proper english, without any grammatical error, it doesn't matter.
chow
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Let's help each other to grow & prosper in Canada
Hey Guys,
Sorry for not posting the reply earlier....hum thode beezee the
Hmmmm...just what I wanted my post to bring out from all you Candesis!
Reachash, you are a shining example of how one can achieve the impossible if one strives for it. I was not on a witch hunting mission neither was I degrading anyone by using the words gujju, bengu etc. they are just words of convenience.A gujju will always be a gujarati....nothing to be sensitive about...
The main aim of my post was based on my observations while reading various post though I have yet to land in Canada
I wish all would read the analysis by O_N....nice post.....you justify your Ph.d, O_N
A lot of people........naturally more so from vernacular mediums of study take their English knowledge for granted & as long as they scrape thru the immigration process, it is ok........'bad me dekha jayega'.....this short sighted approach is what makes life a struggle in Canada, as O_N has aptly mentioned; that such immigrants get sidelined from the main work scenario........and it is saddening.
When we are preparing for a change in life why can't we give it our best shot?? If we need to polish up our English, then we should never compromise....rather it is an all important issue as we are moving to a country where English is the official language. Be it what ever board of study but the culture of exam oriented study is prevalent in our system and as long as we pass or in this case, we get band X(whatever we need in IELTS) we are satisfied. Doesn't this attitude make us prime eligibles for labour jobs, as we give the goras a reason to devalue us??
Reading good magazines & listening to CNN, BBC etc. would give us an indepth idea regarding pronunciations and word usage and get used to the foreign accent. What's your opinion seniors?
So my point - give a lot of importance to speaking good English and prepare properly.
sincere regards,
Worship
P.S. Though Puja is veryyyyyyy 'Dharmik' O_N , pray why should I use it?? kaaron aami Puja to Nai!!!!
the code is yet to be cracked!!
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It is so simple to be happy but so difficult to be simple
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 14-09-04 05:36:04
Worship aka Puja aka Prarthana
Informative post. Let me ask you one question though. Are you planning to come to Canada and study linguistics ? If so, then you have a good career in your hand. Maybe you can also become a successful teacher (considering that there is a dearth of good teachers here).
What I posted previously was based on common experience. Not only speaking good english, but a whole change in attitudes is necessary when someone chooses to immigrate and move to a new country. In a previous thread, CCheryl had pointed out that Desis lack common courtesies. We were taught to express ourselves very clearly when it came to courtesies.
"A mute Thank You is equivalent to an Insult" was how our English teacher summarized a chapter
Well this attutude does make us eligible for Labour jobs...Yes and no..
But it surely precludes us from HIgh management jobs. Unless a Desi has the ability to perform much better than a Gora/Born Canadian Desi, he/she stands no chance securing a high paying management level job.
Yaar, who cares of CNN/BBC...when folks in India have Tata Young crooning "Dhoom Machade" . May all prospective immigrants take time to read your views also It will surely help them !
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"Aur Vaise Bhi, Sharafat ki jab kapde utarti hai, sabse zyaada mazaa shareefon ko hi aati hai"....(From The Dirty Picture)
Warning !! SCAM ALERT !!
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=4169 & http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=1379
This is a Useful Health related Tip
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=3865
Please visit
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php for some interesting Information ! (Especially 009.005 )
Etiquette!!
THAT IS THE NAME OF THE GAME!!
So rightly put by CCheryl and O_N.....basic courtesies are extremely important...apna to kya... kam ho gaya...tata bye bye.....again a short sighted, selfish approach.
Definitely a whole change in attitudes and thinking would be the biggest plus point.(since all that immigrants do is count points before they migrate)
How much we take these things for granted yet when the time comes, water finds its own level......chaf gets separated from the corn(I am sure I have made a mess of the proverd......the words delude me 
O_N...I wish I could take up Linguistics, always had a penchant for it but did not heed to the call of my heart.I would love to be a teacher too....alas am not qualified for that......who knows, if things go right and I land there I can start something new.....never too late.
Can some one write an article on ETIQUETTE & MANNERISMS prevelent in CANADA.....general and specially at the work place???? It would do a tonne of good to all prospective and new immigrants.....India ka bhi name roshan ho jayega......ki dekho ye log kitne well mannered hai....
btw....O _N, THE CODE AIN'T CRACKED YET jaane do
Worship
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It is so simple to be happy but so difficult to be simple
