Canadian Experience - a systemic unfair employment barrier to newcomers
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Quote:
Originally posted by dimple2001
Quote:
Originally posted by aamir.khawaja.fb
What is the point of giving immigration to regulated professionals to Canada?
Pls see my previous response to febpreet. That's what I believe is happening, which, I agree is wrong.
Well I understand your reasons for saying the issue of Sync between Government and Labour Market, to me that Sync is not the issue. Western think tanks develop strategies for 50 years and beyond. Giving immigration to regulated professional and then leave them at the mercy of regulated association is a very well thought out strategy to create "quality manpower" for general labour jobs. Where doctors and lawyers will drive a cab for living chances are there will be low level of social crimes because the educated labour force will not likely to be part of drug cartels or any other notorious under ground world.
These regulated professionals were law abiding citizens in their country of origin and most likely will remain the same in their adopted homeland because of their pride they had earned in the professional career.
Let me give you an example of Thorncliffe Park. Thorncliffe Park is a home to more newcomers per square foot than anywhere else in Canada. It is the most densely populated neighborhood in Toronto. A population of 28,000 to 30,000 people live in Thorncliffe Park.
Sixty three percent (63%) of the entire population in Thorncliffe Park have a post-secondary education which is three times higher than the academic profile of any community in the GTA. Yet this community is facing over 30% unemployment or underemployment ratio, which is more than three times the average unemployment rate for the city of Toronto. Yet it has the lowest crime rate in the city even though it is densely populated area.
Compare Thorncliffe Park community academic profile with Jane and Finch academic profile and population with less population JF is the highest in crime rate in Toronto.
What I am only saying it is all strategic move from the Canadian think tanks and the Canadian government, they can fix this in one day, like in UK immigrants doctors, lawyers gets the internship right away in the career after landing in UK.
One does not require a rocket science to understand how modern day slavery is forced upon regulated professionals and we all are falling in to this trap of let's do Canadian certification, degrees, diplomas and then wait to see if we still get a chance for interview. In US as a doctor if you pass USMLE exams you get a residency right away over in Canada as a doctor even you pass the exams you don't get any guarantee to get residency due to quota limit on new immigrant doctors and after two years of wait in the residency your exams results becomes garbage and you have to take the exams all over again
Is it not strategic or what?
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Well said Febpreet. 100% agree with you.
Dimple, your CA friend was smart and knew the process before coming to Canada. If he/she had written the same US exams after landing (even next day of landing) in Canada then his qualifications won't be equivalent to Canada standards. Do you know this?
In US, it is much easier for Doctor's as it is a straight forward process - write USMLE (first two parts you can write in your own/neighbouring countries) and only last part you have to write in US. After passing USMLE, it is comparatively very easy to get residency but it is extremely difficult in Canada. This is the case when we have extreme shortage of Doctors. As of today, in BC, to see the specialist, it is common to have 4-8 months of waiting time. Even my family doctor have waiting time of more than a week.
Posts: 2873
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 22-07-13 19:42:46
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 22-07-13 19:42:46
Quote:
Originally posted by Ash20
Well said Febpreet. 100% agree with you.
Dimple, your CA friend was smart and knew the process before coming to Canada. If he/she had written the same US exams after landing (even next day of landing) in Canada then his qualifications won't be equivalent to Canada standards. Do you know this?
I do. That was why I mentioned it. Is anything preventing others to know the process beforehand? Not all might be able to do what my friend did, but nothing is stopping from knowing what they have to face.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. I am not disagreeing with the challenges of immigrants' employability and I am not disagreeing with the ridiculous requirements that are in place. However, on the other side of the coin, playing the victim card doesn't help either.
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Dimple2001
Quote:
Originally posted by febpreet
I think we are losing a perspective here. This is what I think is the case with Canada.
You have Govt. of Canada advertizes that they require professionals from all walks of life. These professionals, then show their interest to move to Canada and are evaluated by Govt.'s own agencies. Agencies (such as WES, UofT) find they are Canadian equivalent to this, this, and this, and fit to immigrate. Let's analyze this scenario, and you don't need to be a Rocket Scientist to understand. When Govt. claims with all your evaluated credentials that you're fit to carry out your profession in Canada then they don't say you would need to work in Factories or Timmies, then study all over in Canadian universities, fork out all your life's savings, etc. Rather, they imply that the Profession against which the one is evaluated, is well received in Canada. There's hardly a mention of Canadian experience. Fair enough?
These are skilled immigrants and receiving any help from Canadian Govt. is the last on their agenda. I know this as I, alongwith many of my friends and acquintances are Professionals in their respective fields. You can make this argument for Refugees that enter Canada on the premise of Govt.'s assistance only.
So, when an employer asks for the Canadian Experience and tell them they are not recognized in this country; simply means they have been duped by the Govt. This further means, the Govt. agencies are not in sync with the industry here at all. Isn't it strange? Isn't it the Govt's job to identify the sectors that require immigrants' employees specifically? Or, DO NOT bring skilled immigrants at all, if they are not required. Rather, strengthen Student visa program. Trouble is, by doing this they will lose out on the taxes.
Coming back to the communication as someone mentioned it. Haven't all skilled professionals (potential immigrants) to undergo IELTS or the other English language testings when they apply for the immigration? Doesn't this testing include qualifying marks for Listening, Speaking, Writing, and Reading aspects of the language? Then, why would you say the immigrants can't speak good English? May be with different accents, I agree. These very companies (or individuals) that complain of immigrants' English are the first to jump on the 'Outsourcing to India' ship. While Telus, Bell, Rogers, and other big names tell you that your communication skills don't match are the first to open outsourcing centres in India or bring these very populance to Canada on a work visa. Remember RBC fiasco a couple of months ago? Talking of double speak and standards, eh?
What is Canadian experience by the way? Is it communication? I explained above my views. Is it Negotiation, interpersonnel, and presentation skills? How can you make sure that the one with Canadian Experience possesses all of these skills? After working in Canada for the past 8 years, I can safely say that NOT ALL Canadian Experienced professionals have these skills as well, whether Caucasian, Afro-Canadian, Indian, Middle Eastern, Asian, or European.
This barrier is put forth as a discriminatory tool with the assumption that an 'ABC Singh or Kumar', who just immigrated doesn't know the skills required without giving them a chance to prove themselves in the interviews. When the whole world is shrinking and globalizing, and the skills are more transfereable than ever before, how can you justify this crap well known as 'Canadian Experience'?
More laughable is, when the employers ask for Canadian Experience even for the Retail Customer Service dead-end jobs.
It's not about whether one eventually succeeds or not. Chances are that they will, as human beings are known to be adapbtable, and succumbed to the environment. Some change their fields, other change the outlook. However, it's the stepping pathway that is adamently and intentially filled with gruesome rock and stones, thus halt an individual's motivation, energy, and an urge when starting their new life in a foreign land.
For people who cry out loud to the strugglers 'to get the hell out of here, if you don't like', this is just a rhetoric sans a valid argument. When all else fails, this is what comes out from these 'I know I am an achiever, who is working in my field and successful'.
The trouble and the reality is, we all know there's terribly something wrong with the system. We pull down those that want to initiate to make it good. Just and merely because we are now more successful.
I rest my case, Sire.
Succinct and eloquent.
One thing which nobody seems to discuss is "networking". If one thinks logically, then it is easy to conclude that HR department people are stupid, uninformed and without much knowledge. That is the reason, they cannot read the resumes or parse it. Easy thing for them is to recruit a person through "referral". This "networking" aspect is the most important thing. That is the reason you would find Chinese people dominating certain departments or even companies. All said, Chinese people are united and do not hesitate to help other immigrants. To a lesser extent, our Islamic brothers also help each other - may be they get networked at mosque or other cultural gatherings. That is quite appreciable. Indian people lack that networking skills. On the contrary, I have experienced very intense sense of jealousy and insecurity. Naturally, experience of Desi is different and disappointing.
Another aspect that Desi have not raised with corrupt Desi MP and MPPs is that Public/Crown corporations run with taxpayer money do not advertise for positions in their company but recruit people through "networking". I have never seen any advertisement from TTC/OPG/Hydro one etc for accountants.
So long as the game is played with "networking" rule, many Desi would be employed in labor job, Canadian education notwithstanding.
When I migrated, a sympathetic Church member had offered me "all kind" of assistance. However, undertone (I might be wrong here) was that I should convert. I did not. I regret it now but I guess it is too late. I would recommend that to any Desi stuck in labor job for 15-17 years like me. The false pride does not help. My both daughters married out of Hindu faith.
To those who are very young and unmarried, I would suggest that they can marry a white girl, say for example, a CPA. That will help get a job faster and settle here easily. One should not keep false pride. If kids are BORN and BROUGHT up in Canada, chances are they will marry a Canadian. What is the point of keeping false pride?
In the end, I would like to state from my personal experience that Desi kids hate immigrant and feel slighted to talk to them at the job. Those Canadian Desi kids would never speak with immigrants. That is not the case with Chinese or Muslim brothers. The reason is that they are proud of their culture and religion, and rightly so.
I would like to thank every one on this forum who have signed the petition, 1100 +plus people have signed the petition so far and numbers are growing by the hour.
Those who have not yet signed the petition please follow the link to support the petition.
https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/the-honourable-dr-kellie-leitch-the-honourable-yasir-naqvi-canadian-experience-a-systemic-unfair-employment-barrier-to-new-comers
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Professionals from a regulated field are allowed to immigrate to Canada (not 'given immigration') under the understanding that they will seek appropriate certification to practice their profession if they choose to practice.
This is quite clear on Canadian government immigration websites.
Quote:
Originally posted by aamir.khawaja.fb
My question to dimple2001, Since regulated professions are not accepted by the regulated bodies in Canada than why Canadian federal Government accept their credentials at the time of submission of their immigration papers from applicant's country of origin to begin with?
What is the point of giving immigration to regulated professionals to Canada?
Quote:
Originally posted by motr
Professionals from a regulated field are allowed to immigrate to Canada (not 'given immigration') under the understanding that they will seek appropriate certification to practice their profession if they choose to practice.
This is quite clear on Canadian government immigration websites.
True, they will seek appropriate certification to practice. They all want to seek but most of them are being restricted from doing so.
Why restrict them from the ability to seek appropriate certification. Do your own research & then comment. Looks like you aren't aware of the professions, like Doctor's, etc. Canada has shortage of qualified doctors, still the residency seats are very limited, which leads to several well qualified Doctors doing odd jobs. And patients are having to wait to get a family doctor, or are waiting to have an appointment with a specialist. This is just an example. There are several regulated professions where the certification process is designed to prevent you from entering the profession.
Its true that Canada wants highly qualified individuals in their country, to do meagre jobs.
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