One more reason to be vary of associating/working/living in the US.

So What happens to those people who have not closed their bank accounts in US? In the near future a rapacious US govt might consider that as having met the test of residency.

Canadian banksters seem to have arm twisted their lap puppy Harper into signing this treaty.


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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-information-sharing-deal-with-us-under-fire/article12913617/


A debate over fighting tax evasion versus protecting personal privacy looms large for Canada as it prepares to announce a deal with the United States to share banking information.

The arrangement would allow Ottawa to soften the blow for Canada – and the roughly one million Americans who live here – when it begins complying with the more controversial aspects of a sweeping new U.S. law that takes effect on Jan. 1.

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) was signed into law in March 2010, and many of its provisions start on Jan. 1, 2014. It requires financial institutions in other countries to tell the U.S. Internal Revenue Service about Americans’ offshore accounts worth more than $50,000. Canada and the U.S. are negotiating whether Ottawa or the financial institutions will send the information, but the clock is ticking. If no deal is reached, banks operating in Canada will have to give the data directly to the IRS.

Canada and the U.S. already share financial information to track activity like money laundering and terrorist financing, but the U.S. tax act creates a need to sort out exactly what will be shared and how.

Canadian banks have urged Ottawa to take on the reporting duties through the Canada Revenue Agency, which could ensure that privacy laws are respected when information is sent south of the border.

Over the past year, the U.S. has signed bilateral deals to enforce the act with Germany, Japan, Spain, Norway, Switzerland, Ireland, Mexico, Denmark and the United Kingdom. The FATCA has created considerable concern for Americans in Canada, given that many have long ignored a U.S. rule requiring citizens to file annual tax returns even if they are not earning income in the United States.

The leaders of the G8 recently pledged support for the automatic transfer of financial information to crack down on global tax evasion.

Critics said the pledges were vague, but more concrete proposals are in the works through the G20 and the OECD. G20 finance ministers and central bankers meet in Moscow July 19-20 and G20 leaders meet in St. Petersburg Sept. 5-6.

The U.S. law – which would affect all but the smallest banks – adds some urgency to the push for a global tax exchange system, and it is fast becoming the model.

“We continue to work with our U.S. counterparts to develop an approach that both countries will find agreeable, with a view towards concluding an agreement in the near future,” said Kathleen Perchaluk, a spokesperson for Finance Minister Jim Flaherty.

“Canada supports the statements in the G8 summit communiqué to develop and adopt a multilateral standard for the automatic exchange of tax information and that the standard be based on the FATCA model.”

There has been little debate on the issue so far, partly because no details on the talks between Canada and the U.S. have been released. However, Ottawa is promising to make the deal public once it is signed.

Privacy Commissioner Jennifer Stoddart is keeping an eye on the issue.

The commissioner’s office and the Finance Ministry have discussed the negotiations with the United States, said Valerie Lawton, a spokesperson for the commissioner. She also said Ms. Stoddart has received “a few dozen” inquiries about the U.S. law, but formal complaints cannot be filed until it is in effect.

Ms. Lawton points out that if Canadian financial institutions transfer the information to the United States, they will still have to comply with Canada’s private-sector privacy legislation, the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act.

“The privacy implications of FATCA in Canada will depend on the details, which have yet to be determined,” she said. “Many of the people who have contacted us have expressed concern about their personal information being shared with U.S. authorities.”

That concern is warranted, said Queen’s law professor Arthur Cockfield, who specializes in tax law.

“No foreign government should be able to come into our country and demand personal information about our own citizens and residents,” he said, noting that the negotiations are aimed at smoothing over this problem by ensuring exchanges are mutual and at the government-to-government level.

“There’s really been a conceptual shift around FATCA in the last, say, three or four months,” he said. “It was mainly hated by Canada and at least some European governments.”

Mr. Cockfield said stories on tax evasion by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, which began in April and for which he provided commentary, have clearly changed the international political scene as European leaders began promising automatic exchanges like FATCA.

“The basic idea [of] FATCA is quite problematic. It’s probably very expensive for our banks and foreign banks to implement, but it does seem to have played an influential role in encouraging automatic information exchange,” he said.

“The G8 decided not to really make any decision and to let the G20 and more importantly the OECD develop an appropriate framework. I think from a political perspective, it’s still up in the air whether we’ll see this multilateral information exchange. But I’ve written about it 13 years ago, and I’d love to see it.”

Read some of the replies. They are interesting.






Anthony S

7:10 AM on July 2, 2013

"No foreign government should be able to come into our country and demand personal information about our own citizens and residents"
____________________________________________


I agree. What right does the US (or any other foreign government) have to access the personal or financial information of Canadian citizens and residents?

If the US wants to track its own residents' foreign financial activities, I have no objection to our banks providing that information. Nor do I have a problem with foreign banks divulging to RevCan the financial data of Canadian residents who hold offshore accounts. Beyond that, no sovereign nation should be providing the personal information of its citizens to a foreign power.
4 replies
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Score: 59
AtticusinCanada

7:50 AM on July 2, 2013

I am one of the people this U.S. law would affect. I am a stay at home mom to a son with disabilities. My spouse is Canadian ONLY and makes all of our income here in Canada at his Canadian job. Under FATCA our bank would send his banking details, acct. number, balances and all transactions to be shared with U.S. IRS and treasury dept. All because ONE American "U.S. person" is on the account. I can take my name off everything we own in order to protect my Canadian only spouse and his private banking data, I can divorce him or I can renounce. The issue here is that having a bank offer or not offer you services based upon where you are born is against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Period.

If the banks go ahead and do this then there will be law suits. Most U.S. persons residing in Canada are here for family reasons, are not rich and would never owe a dime of taxes in the U.S.

FATCA originally was supposed to go after those living inside the U.S. and who were "off shoring" large sums of money. Instead it has been used to go after every single expat around the world wherever they live. That was not the original intention of that law.

Make no mistake. FATCA is NOT just about "U.S. persons" there are a million of us here and we have Canadian spouses and children. ALL of those people will be reported on if Canada goes along with this. These are people who gladly pay their tax in full to Canada.

The U.S. has bullied the banks into going along or with holding 30 percent of every U.S. dollar transaction. However, this will cost our banks millions and millions of dollars to implement. Get ready for your banking rates to go up. This does not just affect "U.S. persons" It will affect Canada's sovereignty laws, and every person who banks in this country.

Canada did ask for an exemption from FATCA in the beginning because we already share data with the U.S. as per our current treaty. Any new IGA will be a treaty over ride. It violates our laws.

Canada absolutely should say no to this. I and many like me will be forced to renounce U.S. citizenship to protect our foreign spouses and children's accounts. Then we get to live in fear of not being able to cross the border to see elderly parents or siblings there. The United States has acted as a bully in this situation for everyone.

Canada is not a tax haven and FATCA was not intended to be used in this manner. It is harming many millions of law abiding expats around the world and our foreign spouses and children. People are being turned away and are not able to get a local checking account in many countries that have already signed on to this. It's nothing but, a horrible mess and needs to be repealed and Canada needs to tell the U.S. that we have our own laws and they can go pound sand!
10 replies
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Score: 51
Haligonn

8:08 AM on July 2, 2013

By rights, there should have been a full and comprehensive debate in Parliament over this issue. So far, I have seen no evidence of such a debate.
6 replies
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Score: 37
nopeitsgone

8:32 AM on July 2, 2013

There is so much information missing in this article that it makes it impossible for readers to understand the ramifications of FATCA. The media has been very slow to understand what this is all about.


This is an unprecedented extraterritorial law that demands that Canada comply, bear the costs, and ignore Canadian Laws. All Canadians will be affected by FATCA.

It is not just Americans in Canada that are affected by this, but the people they are married to, their children, green card holders, and businesses. Many have Canadian citizenship but their ordinary, legal, registered bank accounts are considered offshore by the I.R.S.


Born in the US but came here as a kid? Not born in the US but had American parents? Married to one of the previous two? Have a green card that you never cancelled? You are affected by this as well. Proud Canadian citizen saving for your retirement, using government registered tfsa's, saving in resp's for your children? Sold a house?

Too bad, even though you are Canadian with no financial links to the US, no income earned there, no accounts there, the IRS wants any jointly held accounts with one of the above to be reported to them.

Canadian citizens should have an interest in preserving Canada's sovereignty.

Canadian taxpayers should have an interest in a tax policy that benefits Canada's needs, not the United States.


Canadian consumers should have an interest in avoiding misguided foreign government schemes which impose costly non-economic regulations on Canadian firms (banks, insurance companies, pension funds, stock and investment companies) – who will then pass those costs on to consumers.


Over in Europe where they are further ahead dealing with this, the bank just shuts down the accounts of anyone with an American place of birth. They refuse to let them take out mortgages; won't hire anyone with an American birthplace because it makes it too complicated for them to deal with the financial problems created by fatca.


For the past two years Canadian financial institutions have been pouring millions of dollars into writing software to identify accounts with American indices. You are paying for that.


FATCA demands extraordinary disclosure of private information from Canadian residents. Many of the people whose rights would be abrogated are Canadian citizens who would be denied protection of Canada's laws to appease the U.S. The government of Canada should not be submitting to a foreign governments demand to the abridgment of the rights of Canadian citizens.
6 replies
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Score: 31
chicken nuggets

8:00 AM on July 2, 2013

The problems with FATCA start long before either government starts sharing information. How are the banks going to determine which of their clients are American citizens (although they may have lived in Canada for most of their lives)? Are they going to send out questionnaires to all their clients demanding that they list their nationality? This would already violate the Privacy Act, to say nothing of the Charter or Rights and Freedoms, which prohibits discrimination due to nationality.
4 replies
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Score: 30
Private_Sector_Sucker

8:35 AM on July 2, 2013

HARPER'S betrayal of Canadians continues.
6 replies
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Score: 30
CriticalJ

9:11 AM on July 2, 2013

"However, Ottawa is promising to make the deal public once it is signed."
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Why is this government being so paternalistic? Why not give us a say in the process?
2 replies
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Score: 29
Glenn Fiddich

7:50 AM on July 2, 2013

And if you Canada don't comply, we will bug your tax office, your banks... Oh wait, we've already done that.
2 replies
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Score: 25
studentadvocate

8:03 AM on July 2, 2013

Under FATCA compliance,Canada's banks or the Canadian government would treat US-born Canadians as second-class citizens in their own country. Those discriminated against include many long-term Canadian citizens with no US economic ties. Also Canadians simply born in the US while their parents were visiting, or through cross-border hospital arrangements.

If Canadian financial institutions, or the Canadian government, single out certain Canadian citizen customers by "US birthplace" – irrespective of actual economic activity, location of assets, source of income, or physical presence – it's simply discrimination based on nationality origin. This violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and Human Rights Act. It would also expose up to 3% of Canada's population – to harm. The term "US Person" has no actual standing under Canadian law. What if banks asked their Canadian citizen customers if they were also "Chinese Persons" or "Pakistani Persons"?

In a letter to the Department of Finance by leading Canadian constitutional expert Peter Hogg warns that a FATCA agreement with the United States, or legislation to bring it into force, would likely be unconstitutional and in violation of Section 15 of the Charter.

Mr. Hogg's letter is dated December 12, 2012 and was submitted as public comment on the ongoing negotiations. "To the extent that any implementing legislation adopts provisions similar to those found in the Model IGA, in my opinion, the legislation would violate s. 15 of the Charter," he writes. "The source of this problem is the fact that the Model IGA requires financial institutions to treat people differently based on such innate characteristics as place of birth or citizenship... The IGA that is being proposed would compel Canadian financial institutions to disclose the private financial information of their clients to the IRS. This would be... in clear violation of Section 15(1) of the Charter, which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of "national or ethnic origin".

Professor Hogg is Canada's foremost constitutional expert, so this letter should be noted by the hundreds of thousands Canadians threatened by this financial witch-hunt.

Read Peter Hogg's letter: http://www.greenparty.ca/sites/greenparty.ca/files/attachments/peter_hogg_fatca.pdf" rel="nofollow">LINK
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Score: 21
LesGuv

10:05 AM on July 2, 2013

"Ottawa is promising to make the deal public once it is signed."

Transparency in government. Not.
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Score: 21
AtticusinCanada

9:13 AM on July 2, 2013

The article says FATCA was "signed into law in 2010. You mean it was signed into U.S. law, not Canadian law. Let's keep the differences clear. U.S. is attempting to make laws then bully every other country in the world into complying with THEIR laws, mostly in their interest. This will cost our banks millions to implement and "go along" with. That cost will be passed along to you. Every customer in Canada. WE did not make this "law" at all. So do we have a border anymore or not?
1 reply
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Score: 17
Solitario

10:12 AM on July 2, 2013

Canada, 1867-2013, RIP.
1 reply
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Score: 16
MVP10

9:47 AM on July 2, 2013

This is the same government that created a fake wedge issue by saying the census was an invasion of privacy.
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Score: 15
Bobsays

9:43 AM on July 2, 2013

Keep in mind our government is sharing information with a country that actively grabs people anywhere in the world and has them 'rendered', a country that uses Hellfire missiles to pop anyone it considers a threat - judge, jury and executioner rolled into one - a country that has 800 plus overseas bases and is involved in violent conflict in dozens of countries.

That most Canadians do not care leaves me with the following view: don't expect me to cry, don't expect me to care, don't expect me to help your when they come for it, don't expect me to do anything for you if you fall foul of this information exchange. You made your bed, now you will get to lay in it.
2 replies
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Score: 15
fintip

9:55 AM on July 2, 2013

In decades past, it was popular to predict the emergence of world government. Despite creating the UN, the EU, and multinational defence organizations, there has been no official move toward world government. Unofficially, however, the U.S. - as the only remaining 'world power' - has moved aggressively to become, for all intents and purposes, a world government. An essential element in that strategy of creating laws that can be applied and enforced in respect to persons and things outside the boundaries of the United States. It is a legal steamroller known as extraterritorial jurisdiction that, if unchallenged, would ultimately ensure that American law takes precedence of the laws of all other countries.

The Canadian government is reportedly engaged in discussions toward an expanded treaty that would give the U.S. the info it wants via Revenue Canada so as to remove the onus - and the potential liability for privacy breaches - from Canadian banks. If Canada is unsuccessful, the banks say they would have no choice but to comply by the end of this year.

What is ignored is that Canada has a third option in the event treaty talks fail - that is to pass a law specifically prohibiting Canadian banks from complying with the U.S. law, or setting very strict terms and conditions under which any information can be tendered to U.S. authorities. Faced with conflicting legal requirements, Canadian banks would be obliged to honour Canadian law first and foremost. Undoubtedly this could lead to a series of teet-for-tat actions that would make life difficult for financial institutions in both countries.

One final point. Among the considerations for Canada in the pending move by Verizon into Canada is the certainty that, at some point, U.S. intelligence agencies demand that Verizon provide complete access to electronic communications in Canada between Canadian residents.

As I say, we might soon be looking at world government by another name - America.
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Score: 15
abonney

9:06 AM on July 2, 2013

It is high time we as the people stand up
and kick this and any other Gov. out, as they
and banks just want to find away to steal our
savings, and keep it for themselves.
This Gov. and banks are nothing but thieves and
liars.
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Score: 15
SirJJohnHawkwood

11:08 AM on July 2, 2013

Remember folks, when a government says they have a responsibility to protect your safety, they are lying.

According the Constitution the government's only responsibility is to uphold and defend people's rights, not their money. So again, when they start abusing your rights for your safety, you know they are lying.
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Score: 14
RonPacific

10:52 AM on July 2, 2013

So the Harper government is preparing to hand over the rights of about a million Canadians without a vote or any details released of the plan? They are doing so at a time when the US government has shown it cannot be trusted with personal information and in violation of our sovereignty. Harper is playing with fire on this issue and unlike Switzerland or France there are almost a million Americans living here.
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Score: 14
Honeebadger

12:07 PM on July 2, 2013

Americans in Canada have not 'ignored' their US tax obligations in Canada-the US has had an abysmal track record in letting its citizens know about them. When Canada does not tax its citizens while living abroad, how would one living their entire life in Canada know anything different? The US must join the rest of the world and end its oppressive policy of taxing its non-resident citizens.
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Score: 13
jeanguytaberwet

10:14 AM on July 2, 2013

Harper continues to bend Canadians over and yank down their drawers so his American masters can do as they please.