Posted on: 21-06-11 13:33:42
Union does not want Government to intervene but Union and Canadapost management are unable to negotiate a deal also. Now back to work legislation gives them lesser pay hike that what Canadapost offered and Union is now complaining. Next they will be complaining about decision of the arbitrator if he/she awards them less than what Canadapost management is now offering. CUPW is going to fight the legislation. Why not strike a deal with management?
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1012441--back-to-work-legislation-imposes-lower-wages-than-canada-post-s-last-offer?bn=1
By the way, all the bills (utilities, hydro, taxes, etc.) are still due even if you do not get the bill because of postal strike.
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it is disgraceful what the CP union is asking for and they way they are behaving.
the issue is not just the wages but their sick leave also (esp. accumulating sick leave year over year).
at a time when the rest of country is reeling under a recession and most people in the private sector and small businesses are barely getting any raises for last 2 years, these guys want grossly over-generous wage hikes.
with over 8% unemployment i am sure many of those unemployed folks will be more than happy to work for CP at half the wages and benefits these nincompoops are demanding.
the govt. offered them 1.5% this year and 2% each year for next 2 years.
i mean come on guys, how many people working in private sector and small businesses are going to get 5.5% raise over next 3 years?
i can understand unions playing hardball and striking when there are massive layoffs or rampant discimination, wrongful dismissals, etc. but they are whining about quite generous wages, pension and benefits.
it is even more shameful that the opposition parties are supporting them and working against the govt. on this.
what they don't realize or don't care about is the fact that these grossly generous wages and benefits are coming out of the pockets of the other tax payers.
air canada's strike was disgraceful, too, but this is worse since CP is a crown corporation.
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
it is disgraceful what the CP union is asking for and they way they are behaving.
the issue is not just the wages but their sick leave also (esp. accumulating sick leave year over year).
at a time when the rest of country is reeling under a recession and most people in the private sector and small businesses are barely getting any raises for last 2 years, these guys want grossly over-generous wage hikes.
with over 8% unemployment i am sure many of those unemployed folks will be more than happy to work for CP at half the wages and benefits these nincompoops are demanding.
the govt. offered them 1.5% this year and 2% each year for next 2 years.
i mean come on guys, how many people working in private sector and small businesses are going to get 5.5% raise over next 3 years?
i can understand unions playing hardball and striking when there are massive layoffs or rampant discimination, wrongful dismissals, etc. but they are whining about quite generous wages, pension and benefits.
it is even more shameful that the opposition parties are supporting them and working against the govt. on this.
what they don't realize or don't care about is the fact that these grossly generous wages and benefits are coming out of the pockets of the other tax payers.
air canada's strike was disgraceful, too, but this is worse since CP is a crown corporation.
I am with you on this but I am not with you on your blind support for conservatives.
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I agree with your contentions. However, I do feel that you are missing some quite vital aspects.
While it is true that CP workers enjoy lot of benefits, have you wondered about CP worker who joined the service believing that a particular contract would be upheld?
There are many more Crown corporations and PSUs. If you want to know how outrageous wages can be, you need to enquire from OPG , Ontario Hydro and Veridian. Even Police also earns more than $100,000 by making overtime
What about Conservatives spending Billions on defence contract without inviting competitive tenders? Does it smack like Indian corruption scandal?
What about Conservatives spending millions in G8/G20 summit?
Of course, none of the above justifies the CP worker demands.
To me, sticking point is not about the wages, it is about absolute lack of transparency in recruitment process. CP appoints people with reference and hence I and you are left out. I think that should be the real concern.
If you want to save money, then CP wastes lots of it in renting buildings from insiders at higher rent and awarding contracts for buying equipments and its maintenance at outrages cost. A little attention in that area would save more than enough to meet Union demands. The Conservatives are as much dishonest as were liberals.
This is NOT to anyway defend CP Union demands. I would be happy if they get nothing as they already have great salary, pension and job security while I and many like me do not have these.
The point I am making is that Conservatives are misleading people by distracting them on public sector workers and they are stashing money as they know that next time they would not be in power.
no, NM, I'm not missing those facts you pointed out at all.
i'm mostly in agreement with you, but let me clarify my position even further.
Quote:nothing in the previously signed contracts is being reneged.
Originally posted by Nightmare
While it is true that CP workers enjoy lot of benefits, have you wondered about CP worker who joined the service believing that a particular contract would be upheld?
the dispute is about salaries, pensions and time off moving forward.
they are not reducing salaries. they are not canceling leave. and they are not reducing pension contributions.
these self-obsessed spoilt brats at the public sector corporations and govt. employees obviously have no idea what it is like to live and work under a real market driven company, and they have obviously never been affected by a recession.
have any of you lived through the recession of the late 1980s - 1992?
or more recently the post 9/11 recession from 2001 - 2003?
think of all the job lost and all the paycuts.
during the 2002 recession many companies that were not even dotcom IT companies had to go through very bad times.
employees took pay cuts, usually between 10% - 25%.
group pension contributions were put on hold.
vacation payouts were suspended.
these guys are just spoilt because they have no idea what it is to work in the market driven private sector.
they are whining like spoilt brats.
it sickens me to core that the public sector funded almost entirely by taxes paid by private sector workers and companies get to enjoy such ridicolous wages, benefits and pensions that most private sector workers cannot even dare to dream of.
and then they strike and cause damage to the very businesses that pays for them and hold the country hostage to their stupidity.
Quote:oh buddy don't even get me started on OPG, Ontario Hydro etc.
There are many more Crown corporations and PSUs. If you want to know how outrageous wages can be, you need to enquire from OPG , Ontario Hydro and Veridian. Even Police also earns more than $100,000 by making overtime
those organizations are atrocious and a cause for shame.
if you look at the 2011 Sunshine List, you will see that most of the top positions belong to OPG and related corporations.
the ontario liberal govt. of Mcguinty has aided, abeted and fostered the monstrosity of the OPG.
Quote:we talked about the conservatives on the election threads last month.
What about Conservatives spending millions in G8/G20 summit?
i don't want to relive that debate.
let me just say that the G8/G20 was a great PR opportunity for Canada to show off our success, stability, culture, and natural beauty.
that whole thing was botched by the stupid good for nothing ultra liberal protestors, rioters and looters...the same type of people that did the Vancouver rioting.
shame on them.
Quote:and i agree 101%.
To me, sticking point is not about the wages, it is about absolute lack of transparency in recruitment process. CP appoints people with reference and hence I and you are left out. I think that should be the real concern.
it is shameful the way whole public sector runs here.
Quote:that is not true.
The point I am making is that Conservatives are misleading people by distracting them on public sector workers and they are stashing money as they know that next time they would not be in power.
do you have any evidence that the conservative party is stashing away money?
if anything, they were in favour of canceling the per-vote party subsidy paid for the tax payers.
they are now implementing that law.
but public sector is indeed a big, huge problem in canada.
they are leeching, fleecing and ripping off the tax payers.
the wastes, excesses and decadence of this class of people is just shameful, esp. on the backs of the rest of us.
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
no, NM, I'm not missing those facts you pointed out at all.
i'm mostly in agreement with you, but let me clarify my position even further.
Quote:nothing in the previously signed contracts is being reneged.
Originally posted by Nightmare
While it is true that CP workers enjoy lot of benefits, have you wondered about CP worker who joined the service believing that a particular contract would be upheld?
the dispute is about salaries, pensions and time off moving forward.
they are not reducing salaries. they are not canceling leave. and they are not reducing pension contributions.
these self-obsessed spoilt brats at the public sector corporations and govt. employees obviously have no idea what it is like to live and work under a real market driven company, and they have obviously never been affected by a recession.
have any of you lived through the recession of the late 1980s - 1992?
or more recently the post 9/11 recession from 2001 - 2003?
think of all the job lost and all the paycuts.
during the 2002 recession many companies that were not even dotcom IT companies had to go through very bad times.
employees took pay cuts, usually between 10% - 25%.
group pension contributions were put on hold.
vacation payouts were suspended.
these guys are just spoilt because they have no idea what it is to work in the market driven private sector.
they are whining like spoilt brats.
it sickens me to core that the public sector funded almost entirely by taxes paid by private sector workers and companies get to enjoy such ridicolous wages, benefits and pensions that most private sector workers cannot even dare to dream of.
and then they strike and cause damage to the very businesses that pays for them and hold the country hostage to their stupidity.
Quote:oh buddy don't even get me started on OPG, Ontario Hydro etc.
There are many more Crown corporations and PSUs. If you want to know how outrageous wages can be, you need to enquire from OPG , Ontario Hydro and Veridian. Even Police also earns more than $100,000 by making overtime
those organizations are atrocious and a cause for shame.
if you look at the 2011 Sunshine List, you will see that most of the top positions belong to OPG and related corporations.
the ontario liberal govt. of Mcguinty has aided, abeted and fostered the monstrosity of the OPG.
Quote:we talked about the conservatives on the election threads last month.
What about Conservatives spending millions in G8/G20 summit?
i don't want to relive that debate.
let me just say that the G8/G20 was a great PR opportunity for Canada to show off our success, stability, culture, and natural beauty.
that whole thing was botched by the stupid good for nothing ultra liberal protestors, rioters and looters...the same type of people that did the Vancouver rioting.
shame on them.
Quote:and i agree 101%.
To me, sticking point is not about the wages, it is about absolute lack of transparency in recruitment process. CP appoints people with reference and hence I and you are left out. I think that should be the real concern.
it is shameful the way whole public sector runs here.
Quote:that is not true.
The point I am making is that Conservatives are misleading people by distracting them on public sector workers and they are stashing money as they know that next time they would not be in power.
do you have any evidence that the conservative party is stashing away money?
if anything, they were in favour of canceling the per-vote party subsidy paid for the tax payers.
they are now implementing that law.
but public sector is indeed a big, huge problem in canada.
they are leeching, fleecing and ripping off the tax payers.
the wastes, excesses and decadence of this class of people is just shameful, esp. on the backs of the rest of us.
Thank God, at least partially you agree with my views.
What about defence contract for Jets? You think Harpo is being honest here?
As we all should know that public sector is Milk cow of any political party. Liberals misused it for many years and now is turn of Conservatives. The point I am making is that all said and done, public should not just be content with the fight, which conservatives are picking with Unions (Though we all should be happy for that). It is time for us to ask for accountability in employment process and transparency. If an open competition is allowed in recruitment in Crown corporations, public sector units, Hospitals and many other Govt run units (As per one survey nearly 33% jobs are in these units) then we stand to get our fair share of jobs. Taxpayer money cannot be used against taxpayers.
NM, i believe that you and i agree more than you think.
you are saying a lot of things that i agree with and have said before.
Quote:such defense deals are complicated and the public doesn't always know the true picture.
Originally posted by Nightmare
What about defence contract for Jets? You think Harpo is being honest here?
maybe you are thinking there's a kickback involved like the Indian Bofors deal.
i can't obviously refute or confirm it since i don't have any inside information.
however, i'll tell you this....the state of our military hardware, esp. jets and submarines is pathetic.
it is an ambrassment to our country.
Canada has perhaps the worst military hardware in the entire NATO and G8.
the reason is simple : for years and years left-leaning liberal governments have neglected this area.
the liberal governments have been philandering the public's money on stupid programs that benefit their own vote banks like the public sector, the unions, etc.
we have been living under liberal rule for decades now.
the only conservative govt. we have had in over 40 years was the Mulroney govt.
and that turned out a fiscal disaster for many reasons, but primarily because of the philandering and fiscal irresponsibility of the previous liberal govt i.e. Trudeau's govt.
anyway, our military is in dire shape and it is a national embarassment.
recall the instances of crashes of military helicopters in last few years and how some air force pilots have died in it.
it is ironical that if you talk to anyone connected with the defence and army/air force they agree with this policy...the only ones opposing it are liberal civilians that have no idea about the state of our military hardware.
secondly, this money will be spent over the course of many years, not at once.
the impact on any one year's budget is not that much.
thirdly, this price was part of a larger collective deal.
if we had competitively bid out the contract for the planes, we may have secured a marginally lower price, but it would have cost us more in other areas.
all in all, i don't know the inside story re. kickbacks but at a reasonable, logical level this is absolutely required.
Quote:i agree 101% !!
It is time for us to ask for accountability in employment process and transparency. If an open competition is allowed in recruitment in Crown corporations, public sector units, Hospitals and many other Govt run units (As per one survey nearly 33% jobs are in these units) then we stand to get our fair share of jobs.
public service and other quasi-govt. employment like health care, etc. has become an old boys club.
it is important to change that.
Quote:but that is exactly what is happening. and has been happening for many years now.
Taxpayer money cannot be used against taxpayers.
the taxes come from the earnings and profits of private sector companies and workers.
those taxes fund the luxurious jobs, benefits and lifestyles of the public sector workers.
yet, the private sector workers and small/medium scale business owners get none of that.
no sunshine list salaries.
no 7 weeks paid vacation
no 15 days of sick time carried fwd. year over year
no 1 year paid sabbatical every 5 years
no 35 hr. work week
no job security
no fully funded, inflation indexed, lifetime pension
no luxurious retirement at 55 with 70% salary paid for lifetime
i can go on and on with some of the typical benefits that public sector workers get.
unless you work in the public sector or have close friend/relatives, you don't know half of these benefits, i can guarantee.
some of these benefits will make your eyes pop and your blood boil.
i'm not saying the Harper govt. will change all this...of course they can't, at least not easily and not in 4 years.
however, in all the years that i have been here, this is the first govt. that is taking a stand against this injustice.
first govt. to stand up and say enough fleecing off the private sector, enough ripping off the private sector and enough leecing the backs of hard working Canadians.
the Minister for Labor, the Honorable Lisa Raitt, appeared on the CTV's Power Play show yesterday.
she was asked why the govt. is interfering and setting the salary limits for the CP union (the 1.5% this year + 2% next 3 years).
her reply was : We believe it is time that the Canada Post Workers Union understand that this is fair and reasonable and in line with what the rest of Canadian workers are getting.
and that, my friend, nicely sums up what I am talking about.
she is of course being politically correct on TV.
in fact, it is more than fair and more than what the rest of the Canadian workers are getting.
