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  Canada Immigration Forum > General > Our Native Country! > Karachi Project - directly responsible for the deaths of over 500 indians..
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Karachi Project - directly responsible for the deaths of over 500 indians..




ILOVENA
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 09




Posts: 295
Location:


When it comes to the safety and security of it's citizens, war is never an easy option.
War means death and destruction of property, the economy and to the psyche. War means rebuilding an economy from scratch, if that is the need of the day. War polarizes forces within and outside the county and can mean the realignment of blocs, friends and foes. In short, war has painful connotations.

That being said, war sometimes inevitable. The destruction of some lives may guarantee the future and security of society, for years to come. Coming to the Indo-pak conflict which has raged over 60 years, it comes out of an ideological divide, intense hatred and partly because of the politics in India. Pakistan was formed on the basis of religion - and Jinnah averred that there was a need for a "homeland" for Muslims, because they were not safe in India. History has proved that, quite to the contrary, Muslims enjoy a high quality of life in India.

I believe in the equality of all religions, but when one religion believes that there is no place for unbelievers (a.k.a followers of other religions), I wonder whether our founding fathers were right in declaring India, a secular republic.

Even for argument sake, if we were to believe that this decision was right, what was this based on? Was there a referendum to know what the nation believed in? Were the people consulted on an important decision like this?. No, instead the bunch of rulers at that time, decided the fate of the country.

Coming back to the question of our relationship with Pakistan, I believe that no matter who is in power, their survival depends on their being stridently anti Indian. The state operated spy agency ISI continues to train terrorist groups, while the government in Pakistan continues to talk of peace, and cooperation with India.

Some ask if the terrorists in Pakistan will stop attacking targets in India, if there was a "fully azad Kashmir". I don't think so, because the focus now is not just on Kashmir - that is just an excuse. At this time, the intention is to hurt every Indian, preferably non Muslims.

With that equation, we have only two choices - to have a war over the security and safety of Indians, or continue to allow Indians die to IED's and bullets from the guns of Pakistan trained terrorists.

I believe the government in India, prefers the latter choice, for obvious reasons.


 
Post ID: 159620 03-03-10 22:00:06
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Nightmare
Senior Desi
Member since: Apr 06




Posts: 1170
Location:


Quote:
Originally posted by ILOVENA

When it comes to the safety and security of it's citizens, war is never an easy option.
War means death and destruction of property, the economy and to the psyche. War means rebuilding an economy from scratch, if that is the need of the day. War polarizes forces within and outside the county and can mean the realignment of blocs, friends and foes. In short, war has painful connotations.

That being said, war sometimes inevitable. The destruction of some lives may guarantee the future and security of society, for years to come. Coming to the Indo-pak conflict which has raged over 60 years, it comes out of an ideological divide, intense hatred and partly because of the politics in India. Pakistan was formed on the basis of religion - and Jinnah averred that there was a need for a "homeland" for Muslims, because they were not safe in India. History has proved that, quite to the contrary, Muslims enjoy a high quality of life in India.

I believe in the equality of all religions, but when one religion believes that there is no place for unbelievers (a.k.a followers of other religions), I wonder whether our founding fathers were right in declaring India, a secular republic.

Even for argument sake, if we were to believe that this decision was right, what was this based on? Was there a referendum to know what the nation believed in? Were the people consulted on an important decision like this?. No, instead the bunch of rulers at that time, decided the fate of the country.

Coming back to the question of our relationship with Pakistan, I believe that no matter who is in power, their survival depends on their being stridently anti Indian. The state operated spy agency ISI continues to train terrorist groups, while the government in Pakistan continues to talk of peace, and cooperation with India.

Some ask if the terrorists in Pakistan will stop attacking targets in India, if there was a "fully azad Kashmir". I don't think so, because the focus now is not just on Kashmir - that is just an excuse. At this time, the intention is to hurt every Indian, preferably non Muslims.

With that equation, we have only two choices - to have a war over the security and safety of Indians, or continue to allow Indians die to IED's and bullets from the guns of Pakistan trained terrorists.

I believe the government in India, prefers the latter choice, for obvious reasons.






Excellent analysis. However, it leaves one question unanswered. Why do people of India ( in contrast to Govt. of India) do not raise their voice? Are they coward? Are they dumb? or Are they without any human values?

My take: all three of the above or else Kangress , which has virtually ruled the country would retaliate.


 
Post ID: 159623 03-03-10 22:48:47
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ILOVENA
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Member since: Jan 09




Posts: 295
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Nightmare: Thank you for the compliment.

You ask why the public at large, in India, does not react. At the risk of sounding rude, I will give plausible reasons for the "can't care less attitude".


1. The very base of Indian psyche is soaked in selfishness. People do not care about anything until they, or the next of kin are hurt by this insanity called terrorism, or religious fanaticism.

2. Unlike some societies, India is a very divided society. Fissures are aplenty, in the form of religion & caste. When people are busy fighting to protect their turfs like their religion, caste and language, why would they care about national security? We are a very hypocritical society - we talk of national pride and oneness on radio and television, but when it comes to defending our fellow countrymen, we can't care less!

3. Politicians are smart, incisive, and practical. In their singular pursuit of power, they are ruthless, and exploit the divides within society to the hilt. Fact is, no government has the political courage and conviction to unify the country. To them, it is all about the politics of survival, even if it means dividing the country through the use of vote banks.

Until such time that people unify, revolt against corrupt governments nothing is going to change in India.

The million dollar question is - which political party in India is selfless, and considers the interests of the country, before self?


 
Post ID: 159646 04-03-10 11:01:39
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RBO
Senior Desi
Member since: Aug 06




Posts: 1754
Location: Mississauaga


Almost all over people are saying next in 2020 or up the main Economic country or Super Power will be China or India. If this is real prediction than our major draw back will be this terrorist activity which is going more worst on day to day in India.

do you think chinese's politics or politician are better than India?

I know one good thing about China, They always beside the local manufacturers and local marketers compare to us...... i heard in a news even china banned on some outsiders to sell their products b'cos it was effecting local marketers and manufacturers.



 
Post ID: 159654 04-03-10 12:05:01
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ILOVENA
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Member since: Jan 09




Posts: 295
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Sorry this has little relation to the original topic. I digress because RBO mentioned about Indians assuming that the country would be a superpower in 2020.

Here is Chetan Bhagat's take on the topic.

So, we are in 2010. Remember the presentations, plans, articles, studies and forecasts from a couple of decades ago many of them had titles like Vision 2010, India Superpower by 2010, Marching Towards 2010, etc. This is one of those years by when things needed to have been done. But no, we are nowhere near some of those forecasts that were made. Conveniently, those forecasts have been shifted to another nice, elegantly rounded year like 2020, or in case of a few over-eager forecasters, to 2050.

In fact, by 2050, we are supposed to be richer than Western countries, a wonder created by Excel spreadsheets and research houses that are the equivalents of sensational TV channels. Such forecasts assume current growth rates to perpetuity, ignore the low-base effect, and do not consider the fact that most of the economic growth is having minimal impact on the majority of Indian people. It also ignores the fact that we dont have the basics of almost any developed economy right an effective legal system; fiscal prudence; disincentives for corruption; intellectual property rights; less government interference in business; incentives for capital flows and an education system that is designed to reward talent. No, these things are too boring and cumbersome to figure out when all you have to do is drag those Excel cells until India overtakes the West. If it can happen in my spreadsheet, it will happen in real life.

Get real, we are in 2010, and we are still a long way from being a developed country. We have nearly 20% food inflation; almost all government offices are corrupt; the legal system is designed to drag things out and our politicians care little about changing this as the people dont vote on these factors. There are a significant number of educated, and if one may say, enlightened people who want performance and nothing else. Yet, most people in India still vote on caste, traditions, personalities or dynasty. But we already know all that, you will say. Cant you be less morbid, at least in the New Year? Its a new decade, after all.

I am not being morbid. I am telling you what it will take in this decade to change all this. I am telling you the real set of numbers to focus on. The number of votes it will take so that this set of enlightened people, sprinkled across the country, and hence, not a votebank yet, begins to matter.

Using heavy approximations for simplicity, India has around 600 million voters, a staggering number (all data from Election Commission website). Half the people do not vote, thereby reducing the actual vote count to 300 million. However, if you see the difference between the winner in each constituency versus the next guy (that is, the difference between the winning candidates votes and that of the runner up), and add these up for the 530 odd constituencies, the difference is only 40 million votes. That is, these 40 million votes decide the winners of all seats. In fact, if half of these 40 million people switched their vote for the second guy, that person could have won in all constituencies. And half of 40 million is only 20 million the number of votes that decides who will be in power at the top.

This 20 million is a far more manageable number to deal with. It is roughly the readership of this newspaper. It is also just over three percent of all registered voters, the population of two big metros, the theatrical viewership of a Bollywood blockbuster and a little more than the current penetration of networking sites. Its not an impossible target, if that is the number of enlightened people we need.

However, there are some assumptions in this. For one, the enlightened people have to be united and tightly knit. We may all care for our country, but we could be pulling in different directions. In most colleges across the country, the youth is engaged in community activities. However, they all have their own local issues. A group of students is working for more trees in Bangalore; another set in Delhi wants to clean up pollution; an NGO in Chhattisgarh wants better primary education... No doubt, these are fantastic causes, and the hard work done must be commended. However, this does not use our collective power one that can swing the outcome of a national election.

That needs a common agenda in line with the founding principles of a modern progressive nation. The rest will follow. Once we are seen as a tight votebank, and a swing one at that, politicians will have no choice but to listen to us. It is great to be spread out as little sparks around the country, but if we can come together as a fireball, it is even better.

The Internet, college festivals, inter-NGO networks are all opportunities to bring these sparks together. Slowly, this change is happening anyway. But we must hasten it dont ask whats my cause, ask whats our cause. There are many well-intentioned people but they are just not stitched together into a vote-bank that matters yet.

And if we can make 2010 a year in which we decide to do that, build that 20 million vote-bank, then by 2020 those spreadsheets will finally begin to make sense.

Happy New Year!


 
Post ID: 159674 04-03-10 15:16:18
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Blue_Peafowl
Senior Desi
Member since: Dec 08




Posts: 1350
Location: Brampton, Ont, Canada


ILOVENA : """homeland" for Muslims, because they were not safe in India. History has proved that,""""

Since when Jinha think that muslim was not safe in Inida ?
When did the histroy prove that ?

Isnt it all started after Partition ?

Before that they were enjoying very much .... Hindustan belongs to only Hindu

Thank god for partition atleast Hindu wake up after that... all Hindu need is united again to protect instead of hopping from currupt politicians

-----------------------------------------------------------------
'Some goals are so worthy, it's glorious even to fail.' (Param Vir Chakra awardee Lt. Manoj Pandey)

 
Post ID: 159675 04-03-10 15:39:16
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ILOVENA
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 09




Posts: 295
Location:


Sorry blue pea fowl - I can't understand what you are trying to convey.

Frankly, I can't understand what your questions are.

By the way, are you for or against the partition of India?


 
Post ID: 159688 04-03-10 18:51:30
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Blue_Peafowl
Senior Desi
Member since: Dec 08




Posts: 1350
Location: Brampton, Ont, Canada


you said histroy has proved that ... muslim was not safe in india before partition therefore your Idol Mr. Jinnah wanted seperate nation for muslim.

"""homeland" for Muslims, because they were not safe in India. History has proved that,""""


Now, Prove me that muslim were not safe in Inida B4 partition, u seems to have lot of knowledge about them . so clear my doubt.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
'Some goals are so worthy, it's glorious even to fail.' (Param Vir Chakra awardee Lt. Manoj Pandey)

 
Post ID: 159703 05-03-10 09:53:51
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ILOVENA
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 09




Posts: 295
Location:


Either you have a problem with the English language, or you are trying to distort what I wrote. Either way, I will not let this spiral out of control, to allow you to start a war here.

"you said histroy has proved that ... muslim was not safe in india before partition therefore your Idol Mr. Jinnah wanted seperate nation for muslim."

I never said this. READ THIS CAREFULLY. I wrote "Jinnah averred that there was a need for a "homeland" for Muslims, because they were not safe in India. History has proved that, quite to the contrary, Muslims enjoy a high quality of life in India."

Jinnah (and not I) felt that Muslims were unsafe in India, and wanted a separate homeland. I also wrote that history proved that Jinnah was wrong because "Muslims enjoy a high quality of life in India."


My two (rather 3) cents: A) Read the posts twice if needed, before you respond.
B) Try using spell-check, Believe me, it helps.
C) Do not try to distort what others write.
It does not help your credibility. Jinnah is NOT my idol.
It is a figment of your imagination





 
Post ID: 159704 05-03-10 10:35:34
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Blue_Peafowl
Senior Desi
Member since: Dec 08




Posts: 1350
Location: Brampton, Ont, Canada


I guess all CD's knows that i hv issue with spelling .... Knowing good english is the only caliber that shows how smart u r ?

look at the ppl around u ,,, without english lot of them have been successfull.

so stop bringing this english stuff to me... i know that u dont need to remind me.

by they way i strongly believe that " Jinha is your Idol" :) :) :) - as always ppls say this is my view ( i may be wrong)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
'Some goals are so worthy, it's glorious even to fail.' (Param Vir Chakra awardee Lt. Manoj Pandey)

 
Post ID: 159707 05-03-10 11:18:56
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Contributors:
BAsh(1)  Blue_Peafowl(4)  Fido(1)  ILOVENA(6)  KumarM(1)  m2611(1)  Nightmare(4)  
RBO(3)  WEST-IS-THE-BEST(1)  
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