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Junior Kindergarten in Public Schools




Recently I was given the honour of admiting a student in JK in Public school located outside of GTA.
I was horrified to see that there is only ONE Teacher for 20 students ( Yes. 20 Students packed on one room with a Single teacher). To top it all , The same one class consisited of 15 students in SK (Senior Kindergarten) and 5 students of JK. They are taught the same curriculam at the same time. Now when the student that I admitted goes to SK next year, he/she will learn the same curriculam/ excercises / stories / projects once again.

My Comments / Queries
1. Is this legal and allowed in the schools of the GTA (20 students in one class. I know that in daycare the ratio needed is more like 1 staff for 8 students. I also asked a lady in the line as to how many students were in her daughter's class in Grade 3 and she replied 13).
2. What choices do I have to change this system (I am planning to complain to my local MPP based on CD's responses).? I donot like to see my tax dollars withheld for reasons like this but them wasted in the e-health scandel, sponsership scandels etc..
3. The school has classes 9 am to 3:20 pm 5 days a fortnight (every 14 days). I heard from the news / newspaper that some schools in Toronto are already ru nning full day schools (only some). Is n't this illegal? How can some schools (under the Public system) run for full days while the others have only partial hours. Any law suits on going?

In conclusion, I am really very angry to see the 'So called' high quality, free, world standard, Non discriminatory (remember the seperatist schools) public education.

Peace by a PD

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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.

 
tamilkuravan

Senior Desi
Member since: Jun 05
Posts: 5758
Location: God's own country

Post ID: 153226 01-11-09 16:49:17
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dimple2001
Senior Desi
Member since: Apr 04




Posts: 2873
Location: Western Hemisphere


Did you talk to the school about the teacher-student ratio? Is 1 to 20 outside of the standards? If you had asked the school, then you can verify their statement, maybe, independently, through other sources. That would determine if this is an issue or not.

About JK kids in SK or other way around, again, did you ask what that is all about or are you assuming JK kids will go through the same curriculum one more time next year? "Split classes" seem to be occuring when there is low enrolment. You may ask how much of the SK curriculum JK will be learning and how much of it would repeat the following year.

Few questions to the school/teachers would go a long way in terms of obtaining info rather than simply being angered.

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Dimple2001

 
Post ID: 153231 01-11-09 20:37:23
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ILOVENA
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 09




Posts: 295
Location:

ximately
Tamilkuravan - I do understand that while you want to help, there are other ways of getting information, rather than write thousands of words, and page after page. you could as well call the school board, or the ministry and share your feeling of being discriminated against.

I know that after Amitabh Bachchan you are the most "angry young man" I have come across! ......... I wish your posts ended with the zeal to help others.....instead I find most of your posts dripping with prejudice, cynicism, sarcasm (esp your use of quotes)............. You have nothing but issues, and none of these qualities will get you (and us) nowhere.

I know others might humor you, shower lavish praise on you, (which is meant give you an ego trip)............ I won't do that - I know that behind that cynicism, the anger, the sarcasm, and the rush to judgment, there is a good person in you.

Slow down my friend............ this is not a perfect country. This country is still in it's infancy, (just 142 years old) and remember, it is run by human beings like you and me, not machines.

Indian civilization, on the other hand is approximately 5200 years old and yet we have evolved with so many weaknesses like corruption, casteism, the politics of religion and power, to name a few. What have we as Indians done change anhy of that?

That being said I am not challenging your right to vent your feelings, it wouldn't be right to just criticize just for the sake of criticism. I am not sure you would complain in India if your kids were in a class of 70, would you? Of course not -because there would be no one to listen.

I am sure, you my friend would do some introspection - Become a proactive member of society, help out someone in great need.Spit out your anger - replace it with love, peace, and a sense of contentment........ I am sure it will bring you happiness, positive results, peace and good judgment.

For once, let us stop talking about our "rights" and focus on our duties to society and to our fellow beings - be that someone from India or from the remotest part of this world!


 
Post ID: 153237 01-11-09 22:26:33
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chandresh
Senior Desi
Member since: Mar 03




Posts: 2604
Location: Toronto


Quote:
Originally posted by tamilkuravan

Recently I was given the honour of admiting a student in JK in Public school located outside of GTA.
I was horrified to see that there is only ONE Teacher for 20 students ( Yes. 20 Students packed on one room with a Single teacher). To top it all , The same one class consisited of 15 students in SK (Senior Kindergarten) and 5 students of JK. They are taught the same curriculam at the same time. Now when the student that I admitted goes to SK next year, he/she will learn the same curriculam/ excercises / stories / projects once again.

My Comments / Queries
1. Is this legal and allowed in the schools of the GTA (20 students in one class. I know that in daycare the ratio needed is more like 1 staff for 8 students. I also asked a lady in the line as to how many students were in her daughter's class in Grade 3 and she replied 13).
2. What choices do I have to change this system (I am planning to complain to my local MPP based on CD's responses).? I donot like to see my tax dollars withheld for reasons like this but them wasted in the e-health scandel, sponsership scandels etc..
3. The school has classes 9 am to 3:20 pm 5 days a fortnight (every 14 days). I heard from the news / newspaper that some schools in Toronto are already ru nning full day schools (only some). Is n't this illegal? How can some schools (under the Public system) run for full days while the others have only partial hours. Any law suits on going?

In conclusion, I am really very angry to see the 'So called' high quality, free, world standard, Non discriminatory (remember the seperatist schools) public education.

Peace by a PD



1. Split classes, though sounding very strange to us coming from the east, is a norm here. It is not only for KG but goes up to grade 8 where they can have grade 7 and 8 toghether. While it is difficult for the students, imagine the plight of the teacher who has to prepare the curriculam, day plans and timing of teaching a topic for two classes in the same hour! Being public funded schools, this happens in classes where there is either a low enrolment (lower than 20 a class) or an overflow.

Imagine a situation where there are 25 students enrolled for grade 6 and only 10 for grade 5. If you as a citizen wanted that a class should not have more than 17 students, they would have to have 3 classes. That would mean may be two extra teachers, one extra class room and furniture and various other overheads. You then as a tax paying resident would not like to waste your tax dollars on one extra class............ when two classes could have 20 and 15 students - the one having 15 students being a split class.

I am not saying having a split class is ideal situation, but the fact remains that being publicly funded, finances become a bigger problem.

Moreover, unlike India where it is so difficult to get admission in a school during a school year, as a resident, you have a right to send your child to be admitted into your neighbourhood school the day you move into the neighbourhood. Now what happens if the class your child wants to move is full? Should the school start a new class for just one more student?

Believe me, it is a very tough task for the principal to plan class rooms and teacher where there is a constant inflow and outflow of students. They get a funding from the Board (government) based on number of students and not based on number of classes.

2. Yes, the maximum ratio of a teacher to a class here is 1 to 20. What can you do to change it? Fight the ministry, fight the Board, and if they all agree, fight the tax paying public like you and me for whom it will mean extra tax to fund the lower ratio of teacher to students.

3. I could not understand your third point. If the school has only 5 days in a fortnight, what does it do on the balance 5 days?

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Chandresh

Advice is free lessons I charge for!!

 
Post ID: 153257 02-11-09 09:08:02
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tamilkuravan
Senior Desi
Member since: Jun 05




Posts: 5758
Location: God's own country

Thanks to you
Quote:
Originally posted by chandresh
3. I could not understand your third point. If the school has only 5 days in a fortnight, what does it do on the balance 5 days?


Thank you Chandresh for your explanation.
To answer your quetsion, There is another batch of students for the reminder of 5 days in the fortnight
My conclusion
Nope. I will not fight the system. It is foolish to do so. Canada has a set of rules (like say 20 people max. in a class, Allow a large no. of immigrants even without an equal amount of jobs - donot welcome them at the airport- let them figure it out by themselves to get cdn. experience / jobs etc...) and they enforce it to death. As a VM, it is futile to fight as they will defend their decisions to death and I would be wasting my time fighting it.
I have been going towards the Toronto star comments on articiles like EI misuse, Flu Shot / H1N1 bungle, E-Health scandel and I found that many Non VM's are also dead against all this but then even they canot do anything except change the govt. during election time and mostly all parties running bear the same colour of stripes.
may be that is why many VM's find it prudent to exploit the system / find loop holes of the system and exploit it.

Peace by a PD

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I am a Gents and not a Ladies.

 
Post ID: 153264 02-11-09 10:41:52
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Ash20
Senior Desi
Member since: Apr 06




Posts: 443
Location:


Quote:
Originally posted by tamilkuravan

Recently I was given the honour of admiting a student in JK in Public school located outside of GTA.
I was horrified to see that there is only ONE Teacher for 20 students ( Yes. 20 Students packed on one room with a Single teacher). To top it all , The same one class consisited of 15 students in SK (Senior Kindergarten) and 5 students of JK. They are taught the same curriculam at the same time. Now when the student that I admitted goes to SK next year, he/she will learn the same curriculam/ excercises / stories / projects once again.

My Comments / Queries
1. Is this legal and allowed in the schools of the GTA (20 students in one class. I know that in daycare the ratio needed is more like 1 staff for 8 students. I also asked a lady in the line as to how many students were in her daughter's class in Grade 3 and she replied 13).
2. What choices do I have to change this system (I am planning to complain to my local MPP based on CD's responses).? I donot like to see my tax dollars withheld for reasons like this but them wasted in the e-health scandel, sponsership scandels etc..
3. The school has classes 9 am to 3:20 pm 5 days a fortnight (every 14 days). I heard from the news / newspaper that some schools in Toronto are already ru nning full day schools (only some). Is n't this illegal? How can some schools (under the Public system) run for full days while the others have only partial hours. Any law suits on going?

In conclusion, I am really very angry to see the 'So called' high quality, free, world standard, Non discriminatory (remember the seperatist schools) public education.

Peace by a PD



Lucky you TK.

Here in BC (atleast what I have seen in the biggest school of BC - in terms of students), their are 24 students per teacher in elementary classes. In grade one, my son used to go to a class which has 24 students and another class have another 24 students and classrooms have no partition (one teacher in each classroom). Half of the time (atleast many times I have seen), all children (48 children) stay in one classroom and only one teacher teaching/sitting with them (other teacher probably gone somewhere and I assume for administrative work). We did ask why there is no partition, then teachers said that they have done in similar way for last 20-25 years and they have very good tuning. Here, i have seen children from grade 1,2,3 in same classroom.

There is no point in complaining as it can't be changed and yes nobody listen (I know many CDs will say did you complain to School Board, ministry, etc. - answer is no, I don't have so much time). In BC, teachers are almost always complaining for some issue or the other (all political in nature or about their compensation). It all depends on your luck if you get good teacher for your child. I like the practical way they teach here in Canada.

Chandresh, nobody has any issue with 1-2 children joining classes due to moving or something else.

I don't know why some CD's immediately start comparing with India when issue here is elementary education in Canada. They have even gone to the length of comparing Canadian & Indian civilization. In India, I have not seen or heard any private school classroom have 70 children in one class in private schools but there possibly be some (you are right it is not fair to compare private schools in India with public schools of Canada but most of us (CDs) can afford private schooling in India but not in Canada. You can check with all your relatives, most of their children will be going to private schools in India). Anyhow no point here comparing to India.


 
Post ID: 153282 02-11-09 14:28:49
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chandresh
Senior Desi
Member since: Mar 03




Posts: 2604
Location: Toronto


.............
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Chandresh

Advice is free lessons I charge for!!

 
Last edited by: chandresh on 24-11-09 14:11:23
Post ID: 153286 02-11-09 15:31:07
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tamilkuravan
Senior Desi
Member since: Jun 05




Posts: 5758
Location: God's own country

How is the situation in Mississauga ?
Quote:
Originally posted by Ash20

Lucky you TK.
Here in BC (atleast what I have seen in the biggest school of BC - in terms of students), their are 24 students per teacher in elementary classes. In grade one, my son used to go to a class which has 24 students and another class have another 24 students and classrooms have no partition (one teacher in each classroom)


Thanks Ash 20 for the news.
I am blessed to be in a province like Ontario. When I hear of the horror stories like this elsewhere (outside Ontario), I can console myself.
On the same note, I would like to ask the parents of JK and or SK goers of Mississauga as to what their public school strength is in (esp. near the Eglington-Dixie area ? The reason being is that I am offered an oppertunity (not job wise though) to move to Mississauga and I want to know if the JK/SK class strength is lesser over there so that I can comtemplate on moving.
In this school which is located outside the GTA (PM me if you want the school name and location), there is a "No student Hungry programme" going on. The school starts at 8:58 am and if you canot afford the kid a breakfast, then you can send the kid in at 8:30 am so that the kid can have free, tax payer funded breakfast and then attend school from 8:58 am. Many VM parents have office at 9 am and so they say that they canot feed the children and drop them off at 8:30 am so that not only do the kids eat free breakfast but also there is free baby sitting (funded by us the taxpayers) from 8:30 am to 8:58 am. So this is one way VM's and some Non VM's exploit the system.
Anyway, I am blessed to be a citizen of Ontario.

Peace by a PD

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I am a Gents and not a Ladies.

 
Post ID: 153287 02-11-09 15:32:31
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web2000
Senior Desi
Member since: May 06




Posts: 849
Location:


Quote:
Originally posted by ILOVENA

Tamilkuravan - I do understand that while you want to help, there are other ways of getting information, rather than write thousands of words, and page after page. you could as well call the school board, or the ministry and share your feeling of being discriminated against.

I know that after Amitabh Bachchan you are the most "angry young man" I have come across! ......... I wish your posts ended with the zeal to help others.....instead I find most of your posts dripping with prejudice, cynicism, sarcasm (esp your use of quotes)............. You have nothing but issues, and none of these qualities will get you (and us) nowhere.

I know others might humor you, shower lavish praise on you, (which is meant give you an ego trip)............ I won't do that - I know that behind that cynicism, the anger, the sarcasm, and the rush to judgment, there is a good person in you.

Slow down my friend............ this is not a perfect country. This country is still in it's infancy, (just 142 years old) and remember, it is run by human beings like you and me, not machines.

Indian civilization, on the other hand is approximately 5200 years old and yet we have evolved with so many weaknesses like corruption, casteism, the politics of religion and power, to name a few. What have we as Indians done change anhy of that?

That being said I am not challenging your right to vent your feelings, it wouldn't be right to just criticize just for the sake of criticism. I am not sure you would complain in India if your kids were in a class of 70, would you? Of course not -because there would be no one to listen.

I am sure, you my friend would do some introspection - Become a proactive member of society, help out someone in great need.Spit out your anger - replace it with love, peace, and a sense of contentment........ I am sure it will bring you happiness, positive results, peace and good judgment.

For once, let us stop talking about our "rights" and focus on our duties to society and to our fellow beings - be that someone from India or from the remotest part of this world!



Your problem is that u will never ever cooperate with the OP even he is correct in his words. Govt knows that we have people like u who will drag the angry people. [divide and rule policy really works and it worked in the past]




 
Post ID: 153289 02-11-09 15:36:41
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morning_rain
Global Moderator
Member since: Feb 05




Posts: 1920
Location: British Columbia


Quote:
Originally posted by tamilkuravan



In this school which is located outside the GTA (PM me if you want the school name and location), there is a "No student Hungry programme" going on. The school starts at 8:58 am and if you canot afford the kid a breakfast, then you can send the kid in at 8:30 am so that the kid can have free, tax payer funded breakfast and then attend school from 8:58 am. Many VM parents have office at 9 am and so they say that they canot feed the children and drop them off at 8:30 am so that not only do the kids eat free breakfast but also there is free baby sitting (funded by us the taxpayers) from 8:30 am to 8:58 am. So this is one way VM's and some Non VM's exploit the system.




Coming as you do from a part of the world where millions of people dont have anything at all, wouldnt you think that would give you some empathy towards those that truly are destitute?

I have no doubt that there are people that are looking for ways to exploit the system everywhere, however when you have enough money and you abuse programs like this - well its shameful. When you tell others how to misuse these programs - there are no words.

The fact that you are well versed on how to exploit people and programs makes me think you are someone that uses them.






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~ Morning rain



 
Last edited by: morning_rain on 02-11-09 16:27:10
Post ID: 153293 02-11-09 16:26:43
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