Quote:
Originally posted by febpreet
Web2000,
Sorry to respond with more questions. Here they are:
1. Why should anything be free of cost?
2. What's wrong with appointments? If there are say 10 people waiting in line before you - shouldn't they get a foremost right to be treated first in any sector? Why would someone want to jump the line? This is called Patience and equal treatment.
I think you're confusing the healthcare with healthcare reforms where they should allow private players. But look at US of A.
3. So, let's say you're contributing to EI and with as uncertain future as it's now, you get laid off from your work. Isn't it a good idea to receive some money from the Govt. in the form of EI that you contributed before? Ask thousand of those recently unemployed how much they value EI?
4. Reforms are necessary, but how can you justify them with jumping the line and just opting for unlawful means such as bribing?
My views might be hypothetical, but that's what work in making system efficient. See for yourself - the plight of Indian nation having a dark cloud of curruption and back-door entries.
Also, you wrote all of what I suggested doesn't work in Canada. So, where from they get money to provide you better roads, fire-fighters, efficient Policing, free libraries, less red-tape, free public education till 12th grade, and much more. It's not that Canada is a heaven (no way..), but merely providing you highly visible examples where your tax money is at work.
All I'm saying is that taxes (at least in Canada) ensure better infrastructure and efficient system.
U still don;t get.
1. If there are 10 people in line, how u will guarantee that those paid the taxes. If they don't then it is not justified. First come first serve will work if everybody pays the same amount.
2. Better police (Who told u), Better school (Analyze first), Free education (Pay everything u saved in the university, as just school education of no worth), Free libraries (Books of no use and may be good for story readers), If I have the option to pay either tax or EI then I think my first option could save me for few years. EI can give u few months which is again not workable.
I am asking for the value of the service I should get against the amount of tax I pay. My tax money is being given to refugees (I don't want to go beyond..)
I have no problems with appointments but why so long waiting when I paid the tax.
Quote:
U still don;t get.
1. If there are 10 people in line, how u will guarantee that those paid the taxes. If they don't then it is not justified. First come first serve will work if everybody pays the same amount.
You're saying that only those who pay the taxes have a right to obtain a basic education, health-care, and food. What about people who're living in poverty? Does Govt. and society don't have any responsibility towards them? I am not for full socialistic state, but Canadian model works, no? Unfortunately, that sublimes the principles of equality and equal treatment of all strata of the society. This is the reason Canada is different from India.
Quote:
2. Better police (Who told u), Better school (Analyze first), Free education (Pay everything u saved in the university, as just school education of no worth), Free libraries (Books of no use and may be good for story readers), If I have the option to pay either tax or EI then I think my first option could save me for few years. EI can give u few months which is again not workable.
It's highly subjective. Works well for the majority of the people who experienced Policing in India or South Asia. Does Police harass you here, ask a bribe to get FIR done, a school deny admission to the basic education if you don't have money, library denies you admission (there you go - at least something is free
. Free basic education makes sure you think rationally and not be-fooled by any polititians as in India.Quote:
I am asking for the value of the service I should get against the amount of tax I pay. My tax money is being given to refugees (I don't want to go beyond..)
Again, the value of money is in providing you a better and curruption free environment.
Quote:
I have no problems with appointments but why so long waiting when I paid the tax.
(Sigh...) Just because you paid the tax doesn't mean you jump the queue and get preferential treatement over the others who paid the taxes as well.
Well, I think the only difference between your opinions and mine is that you chose the first option and I, the second (bribe vs. taxes). Please remember that no country on this planet is 100% perfect . People are unhappy with Govt. and system in India as well as over here. You have to draw the line somewhere and compromise happily (Happily being the key here). If you don't, then the life would become too unpleasant anywhere you live in this world.
Take care... Ciao!!!
Quote:
Originally posted by febpreet
Quote:
At least Thailand is better in this aspect that kept on following 'Rakesh Saxena' for years until they finally got hold of him today for the $88 mn. Banking scam. This is what India needs to do as well. And, this will only be done if she is built on the virtues of honesty and not curruption/bribe.
But as others mentioned - 'Dilli abhi bahut door hey'!
/
Febpreet, I agree with your whole post except 'Rakesh Saxena' issue. I was in Thailand at that time and if you go through old news items about Rakesh Saxena, you will realise that Thailand tried it's best that Rakesh Saxena is not extradited. Police official who came here in Vancouver were caught taking boxes of money as bribe . As usual in all such scams, there were many politicians involved not just just Rakesh Saxena and they don't want Rakesh Saxena to open his mouth. The issue was exactly same as Indian government never wanted to catch Bofors scam culprit or solve swiss a/c issue, etc.
I have not followed news from Thailand for couple of years now and surely political equation must have changed now.
Web2000, this thread is about India/corruption and you can discuss Canada/health care issue in the other thread.
I agree with you, as I didn't dig deeper into Saxena's issue. My bad!!
Posts: 2873
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 30-10-09 18:35:46
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 30-10-09 18:35:46
Quote:
Originally posted by web2000
(Books of no use and may be good for story readers),
Really? wow.
Anyway, from your posts, you are convinced beyond doubt there is nothing good about Canada and India and Indians are everything. Amazing.
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Dimple2001
Spectrum Scam explained in simpler language:
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Posts: 5775
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 30-10-09 19:04:26
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 30-10-09 19:04:26
Quote:
Originally posted by web2000
U still don;t get.
1. If there are 10 people in line, how u will guarantee that those paid the taxes. If they don't then it is not justified. First come first serve will work if everybody pays the same amount.
2. Better police (Who told u), Better school (Analyze first), Free education (Pay everything u saved in the university, as just school education of no worth), Free libraries (Books of no use and may be good for story readers), If I have the option to pay either tax or EI then I think my first option could save me for few years. EI can give u few months which is again not workable.
I am asking for the value of the service I should get against the amount of tax I pay. My tax money is being given to refugees (I don't want to go beyond..)
I have no problems with appointments but why so long waiting when I paid the tax.
I donot agree to many of your observations.
I actually welcome Canada's system of high taxation and cradle to death senario of Canada BUT it is misused and mostly in favour of Non Visible Minorities.
Shortcomings of Canadian Medical system
The health care system is good but then it is flawed in many respects. I can to go to 20 doctors (If I have the time) in one day for one disease and still do nothing illegal. If i have just a minor cut, then I have to stand in line in the emergency line for 5 or 6 hours for the doctor to see me. The nurses treat me, only after the doctor signs off. There is lot of waste in the hospitals. Hospitals have few doctors and many, many nurses. Hospital fund is wasted (e-health scandel). Doctors are nor churned out in sufficient numbers BUT Canada yet wants more immigrants (read $$$) and their sons ,parents and daughters.
Shortcomings of Canada
1. I also agree that libraries are a waste in Canada. Most of the toddler books give you nighmares when you read them. Librarians and Library staff are generally on facebook or browseing. The books have been bought without even some one reviewing them. Most people come to the library to play games on the computer, get movies, songs etc...
2. EI as such is good but it has to be fine tuned.
3. I agree that most of the social prograns in canada are geared toward Non VM's and not towards Indians (whose basic tendency is to save). So we will have major differences.
4. Again people tend to think that Canada welcomes refugee's and that reflects the compassionate nature of Canadians.. That is totally false ( I agree that some Canadians are nice people but still a lot of them are still out there who donot see us as friends and coffer fillers). In the eyes of the UN, Canada has an obligation to take in refugees as it is taking huge numbers of Immigrants (to feed $'s to the system). So it is a sort of compulsion.
5. if you come to regions outside the GTA, you will see how the non visible minorities are treated (not in IT or Finance background). The outside areas are not fully tuned to the concept of immigrants and here people mostly consider us pests.
India Vs Canada
man is the same everywhere.
In India, computers are still not everywhere. So there is no documentation and people get bribe even for small stuff. But computers can change this. Just as an Example, see Indian Railaways before computers came in. Now there is no corruption / agents in the system (before there was). Everything moves straight (the reservation).
In Canada, Most operations are computerised. So we donot see corruption at the local CSR levels. But still as mentioned, there is heavy corruption at the higher levels. also most of the people eat Beef, Pork and Drink regularly. So they can do the work of 3 Indians. In India, People are vegetarians and hence most of them can work only 3 or 4 hours a day.
Hope this clarifies.
Peace by a PD
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