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Originally posted by Fido

Blorean ,

Though this ( india vs Canada) has been discussed countless times , but seldom have I come across such a poignant post .... my take ....

Each individual is different and as such sets his own priorities .. It becomes difficult to assert when one is against the mainstream but peace comes when we take up something that we really wish to follow ....

But this 'wish to follow' should be well balanced and analyzed .... if you were to browse mine and TK s posts , you d find that we both (and many others) find living in Canada skeptical but still continue doing that as decision making will come in its sweet time and more importantly ..... once we start living in an environment we kind of get used to it and fail to appreciate its benefits .... similar to you , I wished to exit India for getting rid of corruption , pollution , population etc ..... and 10 years hence though having achieved that , I analyze what I have lost in the bargain .... Indian ness , roots , culture , identity , values ........ things which I didn't consider whilst in India for aforementioned reason of getting insulated in the environment ...

Do I wish to make the same mistake twice despite all the cold and depressing winters here ... no I will take my time this time and consider the benefits of Canada also vis a vis today s India and in doing that I shall realistically consider the good and bad side of each .... rationally and not emotionally .....

The benefits I have found of Canada and don't see in India are :

1. Clean air , roads , streets and less traffic .
2. Unstopping supply of power , water and other amenities .
3. Infrastructure and its successful operation .
4. Less or no corruption .
5. More safety on streets / house ... relative ..
6. Functioning of law order and other 'pillar' agencies ...
7. Morally and civic wise , people are better here .... people help each other in times of need .
8. Less or no population pressure .


I have kept it concise . We definitely owe our roots and identity to India and have a preference for , but lets give this new country a fair comparison. People who discriminate here are very very few and we should not get swayed by them and GTA is more homogeneous and accepting than other far flung areas .

All the best in your decision and since you are deciding , you will be at peace upon implementing your decision . Do post in after an year of your decision .

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If you have a gun, you can rob a bank.
If you have a bank, you can rob everyone.
- Bill Maher

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Originally posted by blorean

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Originally posted by meghal

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Originally posted by Iknownothing
How many here call India "home sweet home"?

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Originally posted by blorean
And yes, India is home....sweet home.

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Reminds me of the song "Ek roop kai naam.........."

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Million swimmers from Nostradamus
+
Million swimmers from Freud
+
Oracle from Matrix
=
You

Mmmmkay?

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Originally posted by blorean

We are all here for our own reasons. Here's mine:

I never wanted to leave my hometown in India. That's where my heart is and that's where my heart has always been and that's where I am headed back very soon. I have personal reasons due to which I have to go back. And I don't want to bring up my child in this society. I hate this society. I hope you all get the difference. I love this place...but I loathe the societal framework.

Around the time I completed my engineering, flying out west was still cool. Many of my friends came here to do their masters. All my very best friends did. I was left back with very few. I did not do well enough in my GRE/TOEFL to get into Masters and I was never good at academics anyways. So there was that peer pressure.

And unfortunately for me, my family is full of people that came here during the silicon valley boom. None of them helped me. They all were quick to give me some words of advice though. It was worth the piece of tissue in your toilet.

There was this self-inflicted stress of not making my parents proud - like others did - by going west. My parents - God bless them - never really put that much pressure on me but encouraged me to pursue what I wanted. But if only I knew what I wanted at that time. Sadly I was clueless.

All this left me in a very hopeless emotional state and so began the search for an oppurtunity that would put me with the "rest of them". Lady luck was on my side and I got a job in Toronto. I loved it! Things were all falling into place. I worked like a slave, I drank like a fish, I travelled like a nomad - life was fantastic.

Then the dot com bubble burst. I did not understand what was going on. Virtual companies? WTF? I saw my closest buddies at work lose their jobs. Soon outsourcing started. During one of my visits to California, I got a tour of the Silicon valley - tall buildings, big names, silicon graveyard. The company I worked for got bought out and the parent company gave 2 cents about the Toronto division. To avoid getting clipped, I got another job.

At this point I just want to say that I never had any of this directly affect me. I was doing swell personally. I still am. Even now with everything happening here, I still am doing fantastic.

So slowly I began to get a little disillusioned about life here. I began to miss family. When I added up what I gained and what I lost after coming to North America, I had lost everything even though superficially one would beg to disagree. I had a nice place to live. I saved enough. I had freedom. I had a car. I could buy what I want.

But after a while, life gets mechanical here. Things that I once thought were cool didn't mean much to me anymore. And the manipulative societal framework began to get to me. Fake smiles, fake advertising, fake companies...fake conservation areas. This is my favourite. Not a bunny in sight. Please don't dive into this point...but you get what I am saying?

Then I had two incidents of racism inflicted upon me. An old bag once referred to me as "you people" when I was in the company of another brownie at place where she thought we sidestepped her. Second time, an angry woman on the road yelled at me "go back to you home you f#$%ing paki".

Life goes on and we have a lovely child. Soon I start paying attention to schools, the kids outside, the type of schooling here, the curriculum, the Montessori, the public school - garbage. Effin garbage. Schooling in India is a trillion times superior. Schooling in India is "schooling". They do school you...in more ways than one. Not here. Your hands are tied, the school gives a damn.

Meanwhile, my Motherland is doing awesome. Desis here still like to bitch about how bad India is...but they can eat you know what for all I care.

I don't know how some came to conclusion that I hate Canada. I don't. But in North American in general, things are not what they seem. There's always a caveat. Personally for me, India and the Indians I know are more real than anything here.

Which is why when desis here badmouth India, it gets to me.

Anyways, I have blisters on my fingers. I didn't need to tell you my story but I have. I hope this gives you some insight...

Generation after generation, India is getting better and better.

Please don't post a "why don't you go back" post. I am going back. Happy and content and to what is mine, my Motherland. Home sweet home.

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Once again Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boring oft repeated topic with no conclusion . The dicscussion for pros and cons will go on forever. Those who want to stay and enjoy Na will stay and those who like India will go back and be happy and the world will go on .

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You know you are a desi when ........ You spew forth the virtues of India, but don't want to live there...............You've never had a tanning salon membership

RSB:
Yes, I have spent a majority of my life outside India but not all of it has been in NA. No offense taken but I have to clarify.. I’m not from one of those metro cities in India where my family was upper class with all the perks and frills.. I’m originally from a very small town in India and belong to a middle class family. I have lived through and seen the struggles of no water for days, no electricity, garbage everywhere, kids roaming the streets with flies all over them.. in fact when I was little, I remember PIT restrooms is all we had so yes I have seen it all… I was lucky enough that my dad had a will to improve our lives and thus we made it out of India. My cousins and all extended family and now my in laws still live in india and every since I left India, I have gone back year after year and seen progress… but this is not the point…The point of the original poster was not that these things don’t exist in India, the question was, why is everyone bashing India all the time and comparing it to the supposedly great North America. IF you have read my other posts, you should know that I don’t have the OSTRICH type mentality but am well aware of the facts.
What frustrates me about these posts especially those of TK is the fact that they paint a ROSY picture of NA. You talk about the villages of Bihar; honestly speaking, the people who immigrate here are not from those villages. Those people’s lives will never change and some of them probably don’t even know a world outside those villages. Now if you live in Delhi, Chandigar, Bombay and say oh I left India because of the villages of Bihar, then it doesn’t make sense. We can’t compare that life to life in NA because that villager will never make it here due to various factors. You said it HURTS to see these things in India so I guess to get away from the pain of seeing others suffer, one should immigrate? That’s not a valid reason is it?
All I wanted to say was, let’s paint a realistic picture of NA. I know it’s great to be here but let’s not say that it’s all fun and games either. Yes, there are lines outside the AIIMS hospitals in India but why not tell people of the fact that even though we have a good free health care system, people do die waiting for an MRI in Canada sometimes. Ok so you didn’t die sitting outside a hospital but in your home is probably the only difference Free health care is limited to general health only and not anything else and unless you have extended benefits, you’ll pay from your pocket which many people don’t know of. They get a shock when they have to pay or dental or vision…
You have never had any issues with TTC but ask my Nanny who curses it every morning especially today because the system fails her ever so often!
Yes, people are moving away from culture but that doesn’t mean that India doesn’t have culture? I didn’t say everyone was cultured but as a society we do have deep roots to hold on to. IT’s up to us if we hold on or let go. By the way, live in relations and single moms are not that bad are they?
I didn’t say EVERYONE in india has cars and maids but TK made the point that here everyone lives well.. which is not the case either… FYI, even in my family circle today my relatives don’t have cars and love their scooters! I do go and wine and dine in india but I still go to the same small town with it’s small town problems and don’t travel in AC cars but in Autos and other public transport. I’m not one of those who looks at Bollywood and thinks oh, that’s india!
The point is RSB, India is not PERFECT but let’s not say NA is… it’s only perfect for those who have education and land good jobs but ask the ladies who work as care gives in other people’s homes or the men who have to work in those factories all night long or the child who has to go through the brutality of constant ragging because his parents can’t afford to get him the Guess jeans or the WII console.. they will tell you, jaisa bhi tha, job hi tha, Indai great tha.. at least wahan yeh sab nahin karna padta tha… IT’s all relative as to what NA means to each individual. This is a public forum and many people visit it to get information and you mean to tell me that it’s fair to let them think like TK does… he says “In India you worry about the safty of your child, the fees for studying , university, dowry / marriage etc.. Here not that much. People love at university and get married at no expense to parents” If I was in India reading this, I’d be like wow, this is great… Send my child to UNI and my life is set.. no more kharcha 
Both India and NA have wonderful things and weaknesses but at the end of the day, the original purpose of the post was lost… it’s not about a comparison between the two but about why look at India under the microscope and not NA. Let’s say it like it is in NA also. Like I said before, it’s only the elite who came from India that can see the perks of life in NA but for the rest, it’s a harsh life here as well. Close to where I live, I noticed a group of some india women and I thought it was some sort of a cultural center but turns out it’s a fruit packaging company and all the women were waiting to be picked up by a van to take them back to Brampton. They come in hoards every morning, clean, cut and package fruits and are taken home in the evening. Those ladies will tell you, NA is crap!
I Love India and I love NA… but let’s give them both their props when deserved and also keep it real!
I guess this has been beaten to the ground and we can go back and forth on this but at the end of the day, it’s all subjective. To some, there’s no place like India and to others the NA is what they had been looking for all their lives 

PHEW.. I NEED A DRINK... TGIF

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Originally posted by rsbagwell

Guptamik,
If I am not mistaken you grew up outside India. No offence but your knowledge/impression of ground realities in India is superficial.
Lets get the facts right and don't get me wrong, I still luv India and will always be.
But we can't get away from realities.
Which part of India have you seen? Ever visited remote areas of Bihar, UP, Orrisa? Have your seen poverty in India? Have your seen kids eating leftover from the dustbins? It hearts when you see this.

Have your seen people stationed outside for months at AIIMS hospital waiting for surgery?

You talk about racism in NA? I have personally seen religious discrimination in India. I am sure minorities can say same thing about India. Does that mean minorities will leave India? This is a part and parcel of multicultural society.
You can raise your voice. You may get legal rights but you cannot erase this.


Have your travelled in DTC buses in the peak hours? If not try it one time. You will know what TK was talking about. I use TTC for four years. Never had any issue.
For culture, if west is looking towards Asian countries, Asian countries, Including India is copying western living style. Live in relation, single mom (except Nina Gupta and Sarika) etc were not heard off openly about 15-20 years ago
Who told you all people have home, cars, maids, eat and live well? Again you need to visit India one more time. And this time look outside of your family circle.

Problem is when we visit India, we are confined to our well off relatives, move in cars, dine at good hotels. That's where conversion rate comes into play. For us that's what India is. Because that's all we see.

Again I repeat purpose of this post is not to show India is a bad place to live but to enlighten you with some realities

There are pros and cons of both India and NA. It all depends which one weighs more for you. Subjective thing and never ending discussion.


Blorean,
Emotional kar diya.
All the best to you.

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Personally speaking I am in Canada just because of money ( I have only and only one reason to stay here). Had I been rich in India, I would not have come here.

TK has given some positive points of Canada, but I want to make them more clear.

1. Casteless system [There is no need, you will always be a target of racism idirectly and u will never know that]
2. Free english schools [ Because they want to promote their language, why there are so less foreign language schools and so less importance is given to the foreign language when dominating population is of immigrants]
3. Ability to come up in life though a peon in India / BA In India etc... and can buy car, have a mortgage etc.. [ Now the same u can do in India too. You are not given all these things for free. You will be paying for ur house for 25 years and even after u free ur house u will be paying a significant amount for it in one form or another)
4. Free healthcare [It is not free. We pay very high tax (income tax, 14% GST+PST on everything we buy and in return u get only Tylnol and Advil. Doctors are so scared to treat you. If by chance u happened to get to the emergency then wait for 10-12 hours but we still call it emergency. I would say that healthcare in Canada is one of the worst system in the world. )
5. Children [Once u have then u are given so much high responsibility that u can leave them alone anywhere until 13 years (One of the strongest reason of so less population growth in Canada). You have no right to raise children by your own way. It is the property of the government. If u r proven to be irresponsible then fight for the custody of ur own children( I know one family who is fighting for the last 7 years)]
6. Status symbol [ It was but not anymore]
7. Ability to eat very nice food [As long as u r not Vegetarian and u like stale food]

I love my India. Even if I am here I contribute financially to the development and prosperity of India as other NRIs do [I think it is my duty too to pay back to the country where I was educated]

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Originally posted by Loser

Once again Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boring oft repeated topic with no conclusion . The dicscussion for pros and cons will go on forever. Those who want to stay and enjoy Na will stay and those who like India will go back and be happy and the world will go on .

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If you have a gun, you can rob a bank.
If you have a bank, you can rob everyone.
- Bill Maher