While I agree with the good intentions of your views, TK, there are some inherent contradictions in here.
Quote:While re-use in general is good, in this case I disagree.
Originally posted by tamilkuravan
When America and Russia have invested so much in space technology, we should be looking at leasing that technology rather than starting from scratch.
Russian technology is out-dated and is backed by corrupt politicians and corrupt organizations.
Their technology is becoming more and more defective and it's possible they will sell us the dregs and just take our money.
American technology is not that great either.
They are basically still cashing from the investments made in the 1960s and 1970s.
In the current day, hardly any country is in a position to spend billions of $$ on space technology.
Perhaps the only country who's doing this (esp. secretly) is China, and we're obviously not gonna buy from them.
Quote:They will give us sub-grade material, as they always do.
India is in a precarious location with threat from China and Pakisthan and so this money might have gone for weapons / subs from Russia / USA.
Quote:How much money did this space probe cost, and what good will it do even if you were to distribute that money to all the quater of a billion starving people?
There are so many people begging for food in India. It could have gone to them. Or to improve infrastructure, power supply, drinking water etc.. for the poor people.
First of all, most of it would have disappeared before it even gets to the needy people - siphoned off by the politicians and the bureucracy.
Secondly, will it really do any long-term good giving handouts like that?
Quote:I actually strongly disagree with this.
Leaving that , they have wasted their money one something which is not needed. We all know how the govt. / ISRO works? They each work only 10-20% of what an American would work and so I am sure that tons of money would have been wasted on this white elephant.
ISRO, while owned by the central govt, is very different from your typical govt. "babu" office.
It is much more efficient and effective.
Quote:By your logic, we should then stop all wasteful expenditures.
Let us concentrate on priorities.... As some one said in Rediffmail : we should have put all the politicans on the probe which crashed (landed) into the moon.
As someone posted above, what about the billions that are spend on making Bollywood movies and then spent on watching them?
What about Cricket - India's unofficial religion?
How much time and money we spent on cricket (playing, watching, discussing)?
I take your point that we have to make investments in removing poverty, infrastructure, health care, etc.
But we have to find a way to do that alongwith advances and self-reliance in science and technology.
And we have to do this within a democratic framework, not like China.
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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."
-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"
Quote:
Originally posted by tamilkuravan
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Viggy :
your article is dated April 2008 and it says that ISRO (supposedly-which I still disgaree) was making money before the Chandrayan-1 (The present rocket). So the article is irrelevant to the current OP's post. It goes on to say that ISRO is putting the satellites of 2 countries Free of Charge which is a big scam by itself. How can you put things for free and yet make a 100 % profit? Also did you know that Chandrayyan-1 was uninsured, meaning that if it went up im smoke, the govt lost all the money that it spent and they might be facing law suits from the nations that wanted to put a satellite through Chandraiyan-1.
Peace by TK
I think you are confusing between the 2. The article was about PSLV launch with 10 satellites, the first in the world - even US and Russia with their advanced technologies havent done it (- another thing to be proud of). The Chadrayaan was a seperate launch and no one is dumb enough to lauch any satellites for Free, unless they are getting something in return.
I am rather happy ISRO spends the tax payers money, atleast they are taking the country technologically forward. The various schemes suggested above to irradicate poverty will only result in corruption with 90% being lost in transit.
for ISRO and India.Hiren
Hi GoldFinger, TK......
You are really genious and your advice & thoughts are to be taken seriously!We have to forward your advise to ISRO and Govt. of India!
Also we will advise them not to build huge airports until and unless we have good roads, not to buy aeroplanes until all our people have their own two wheelers/cars, not to build five star hotels/shopping malls/housing complex until all the slums are eradicated and we should not run Fashion shows until everybody in India wear good dress.. etc..etc....
What a great thinking! Even after reaching Canada and enjoying the benefits of science & technology, you are thinking like this, if you are in India what not you will say? If you can not appreciate Chandrayaan's success leave it , but do not blame & discourage .
Read this to know about the benefits of this mission: http://chandrayaan-missionmoon.blogspot.com/2008/10/benefits-of-chandrayaan-1-mission.html
ISRO expressed that Chandrayaan-1 is not an expensive mission and in fact this moon odyssey will help the nation to update the technological expertise in order to explore the outer space and finally setting up a base on the earth’s natural satellite.
S Satish, ISRO spokesperson, while contradicting the critics, who wanted an answer behind the need to spend money for a mission to explore the moon, when many other countries have already done it, said, “Moon mission cost is less than Rs 400 crore, which is just ten per cent of annual budget of ISRO spread over many years.”
The cost of Chandrayaan-1 which has been scheduled to be launched on 22nd October is nearly Rs 386 crore, which includes Rs 100 crore for the establishment of Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at Byalalu. This will help to perform the task of getting the radio signals transmitted by future satellites, not just Chandrayaan-1. This mission is also India’s first unmanned lunar mission. The officials of ISRO feel that those who are against this mission are actually not fully aware with the facts related to the mission.
Satish clarified, “For example, previous moon missions have been undertaken by individual countries and it's no secret that expertise of that nature is not shared. So, India had to do it by itself lest it would lose out in the race for the Moon.”
This mission will also help ISRO to better its technological expertise to a great level.
An ISRO official said, “There is also the pride factor. With China forging ahead in the space field, India cannot lag behind and miss the bus. Moreover, some kind of colonization of Moon cannot be ruled out in the coming decades. We have to have our presence.”
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BeeBee
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 15-11-08 01:53:34
Quote:
Originally posted by Beebee
Satish clarified, “For example, previous moon missions have been undertaken by individual countries and it's no secret that expertise of that nature is not shared. So, India had to do it by itself lest it would lose out in the race for the Moon.”
BS. What do people of the least (India) get by exploring the moon, a dumb land mass shich can never be exploited by the Indians
Quote:
An ISRO official said, “There is also the pride factor. With China forging ahead in the space field, India cannot lag behind and miss the bus. Moreover, some kind of colonization of Moon cannot be ruled out in the coming decades. We have to have our presence.”
at what cost? We still have to remeber that we have other priorities like eradicating poverty, giving water , electricity, mid day meals, jobs to some of its most poorest citizens. We have a servant in our house in India who works 3 hours a day and paid Rs. 250 a month. What is the benefit to her or 250 million citizens in India like her?
Quote:
Also we will advise them not to build huge airports until and unless we have good roads, not to buy aeroplanes until all our people have their own two wheelers/cars, not to build five star hotels/shopping malls/housing complex until all the slums are eradicated etc..etc....
Most of the above is done privately or with Govt. and private partnerships to provide jobs / uplift to many and are done for profit. if ISRO can truely convince me that the mission brings a profit, I will accept. I still think that 100% profit senario by ISRO is BS
Quote:
“Moon mission cost is less than Rs 400 crore, which is just ten per cent of annual budget of ISRO spread over many years.”
Scrap the whole ISRO project and provide Rs 4000 crores to infrastructure, poverty eradication, Power supply , Drinking water supply etc...
Quote:
As someone posted above, what about the billions that are spend on making Bollywood movies and then spent on watching them?
These are made and sold for making a profit and it is private ventures. You canot compare them as they are like comparing Apples to Oranges. again if I see the hard facts that ISRO is making a profit or doing break even or a mild loss, I will withdraw my negetive comments.
Quote:
The Chadrayaan was a seperate launch and no one is dumb enough to lauch any satellites for Free, unless they are getting something in return
Hiren, Read the article again. Atleast 2 satellites from 2 countries were put in space for free. Again, it was a risky venture as Chandrayan-1 was not insured.
Quote:
ISRO, while owned by the central govt, is very different from your typical govt. "babu" office.
It is much more efficient and effective.
I Disagree. I was in ISRO colony, Ahmedabad for 6 months and lived around ISRO workers. I know that most of them are very over paid and very underworked. again, it is just a small sampling. There can be marginal error. Still they have the govt. mentality and caste based reservations. very hard to work smart / cutting edge in those organaisations
Quote:
How much money did this space probe cost, and what good will it do even if you were to distribute that money to all the quater of a billion starving people?
First of all, most of it would have disappeared before it even gets to the needy people - siphoned off by the politicians and the bureucracy.
Secondly, will it really do any long-term good giving handouts like that?
Corruption is everywhere. even in ISRO. Atleast we can expect that some good is passed on to the poor people. again no handouts. Do distribute it to the benefit of the poor like drinking water, electricity, public hygene, health care, Public toilets, creation of jobs, Expanding agricultural loans etc... . It wil help the nation for sure in the long term,
Hope this helps
Peace by TK
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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.
TK:
You are way off base... One of the objectives of Chandrayaan is exploring He-3 isotope in Moon. Once Chandrayaan relays its data on the He-3 stocks to ISRO, India will have a greater advantage under the IPR regime, since it has not only spent Rs 386 crore on the mission but also came out with new findings on Helium-3. India will have a larger claim on the natural lunar resources. And by the way, Helium-3 is quite precious, 100 times more valuable than gold. It is the gas that is touted as the future fuel of nuclear plants and automotives.
Most of the objectives are not disclosed to public for strategic reasons or just because it doesn't make sense.
Indirectly also the mission helps - ISRO will be treated with more respect when it comes to space related matters and will fetch more business for satellite launching etc.
Thanks!
P.S: The money involved in last IPL was more than this 386 crore.
Quote:
Originally posted by tamilkuravan
Corruption is everywhere. even in ISRO. Atleast we can expect that some good is passed on to the poor people. again no handouts. Do distribute it to the benefit of the poor like drinking water, electricity, public hygene, health care, Public toilets, creation of jobs, Expanding agricultural loans etc... . It wil help the nation for sure in the long term,
Peace by TK
Between Arjun Singh and ISRO, who would you trust your taxes with? All the problems that you mention will continue to exist even if ISRO were to be scrapped.
Space programs have resulted in technology transfers that have impacted us in so many ways, from water purification systems to laser angioplasty.
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
http://www.look-to-the-skies.com/space_program_spinoffs.htm
for the little ones
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/spinoffs2.shtml
the question is probably if you want other countries to be on the forefront of these inventions/technologies or if you want India to be in a position to be one of the leaders in emerging technologies and inventions.
BTW to put things into prespective...it is said that video games quarters take in enough money each year to finance 5 missions to jupiter mars...its in one of the links above.
--------some technologies resulting from space programs--------
1. Satellite TV - NASA developed ways to correct errors in signals coming from spacecraft. Now the technology is used to reduce noise (poor picture or sound) in satellite TV signals.
2. Bar coding - First developed to help NASA keep track of millions of spacecraft parts, it is now used by stores and manufacturers to keep track of sales and stock.
3. Joystick controllers - Now used for computer games and in vehicles for people with disabilities, they evolved from research to develop a controller for the Apollo Lunar Rover and from other NASA research into how humans actually operate.
4. Smoke detector - First used in the Earth-orbiting space station Skylab, launched in 1973, to help detect toxic vapors. Now it is used in homes and buildings to warn of fire.
5. Invisible braces - The translucent ceramic was adapted from NASA's advanced ceramic research to develop tough new materials for spacecraft and aircraft.
6. Cordless tools - Portable, self-contained power tools were developed to help Apollo astronauts drill for moon samples. Today, cordless power drills, vacuum cleaners, and shrub trimmers are common.
7. Portable computer - A forerunner of the modern notebook computer was first used by NASA in a shuttle mission in 1983.
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