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  Canada Immigration Forum > General > Sports > Sehawag, Bhajji, Munaf out of tour
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Sehawag, Bhajji, Munaf out of tour




pratickm
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Member since: Feb 04




Posts: 2831
Location: Toronto


Quote:
Originally posted by Surjeet
So you prefer to keep poor performers and groom them! Nice logic. Keep it up!!

I can't think of any one else who is more redundant and unnecessary than Agarkar right now.
I personally watched him get those series of ducks against Australia.
His skills are shocking, to say the least.

The only other cricketer in recent times who was even poorly skilled than Agarkar was Robin Singh.
His only value was his fielding skills in the cover region.
If you added the runs he saved plus the runs he scored he was probably worth his position in the one-day squad.

I have lost touch with the national cricket circuit within India, but there's got to be a good, young fast bowler who we can train and groom.

Bottom line is - if Agarkar is the best fast bowler we have got and there's no hope of a better replacement anytime in the near future, then I'm afraid, we'll not be winning very many matches in the next little while, esp. test matches.

Once Kumble is gone, India simply won't be able to take 20 wickets in 5 days to win a match.

Regarding Pathan, his one-day bowling record is actually pretty good.
It is better than Agarkar's in both one day and tests, both per match average as well as run-wicket average.
He's been in international cricket for barely 2 years - I think grooming him is a much better bet than sticking to Agarkar.

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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."

-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"

 
Post ID: 102333 21-06-07 09:40:45
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puttoo
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Member since: Jan 05




Posts: 1096
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Well you sure go a long way back ... when was that 99-00 and he claimed 11 wickets in 3 games also did not matter. Infact he was instrumental in India beating Australia In Australia with a 6 wicket haul in the second innings .... Australia sent packing for less then 200 !!!!! dont know what skills you are looking for in a bowler!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm

Quote:
Originally posted by Surjeet
So you prefer to keep poor performers and groom them! Nice logic. Keep it up!!

I can't think of any one else who is more redundant and unnecessary than Agarkar right now.
I personally watched him get those series of ducks against Australia.
His skills are shocking, to say the least.




 
Post ID: 102340 21-06-07 10:07:46
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Maharaj
Senior Desi
Member since: Oct 02




Posts: 1721
Location: Brampton


Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
Once Kumble is gone, India simply won't be able to take 20 wickets in 5 days to win a match.

Regarding Pathan, his one-day bowling record is actually pretty good.
It is better than Agarkar's in both one day and tests, both per match average as well as run-wicket average.
He's been in international cricket for barely 2 years - I think grooming him is a much better bet than sticking to Agarkar.


Kumble again is done deal, he wont be around after Indian Tour to Australia. I hope selectors keeps Piyush Chawla (or Amit Mishra) around him in all these Tours.

Pathan & Agarkar - they both are rythmic bowler. You could sense their match performance based on first couple overs. Over all Pathan is better than Agarkar but right now, Agarkar is better choice. He will continue play ODIs. Rightly, he won't be in Tests.





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Mumbai Maazi Ladki ...

 
Post ID: 102341 21-06-07 10:23:59
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Garvo GujaratiMember of Administrators
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Member since: Nov 01




Posts: 3088
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It looks like Pratik is using numbers to justify his exclusion, but he does not believe in numbers to justify his inclusion.

Two different criteria.

:)




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A Proud Indian Canadian

 
Post ID: 102342 21-06-07 10:25:51
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pratickm
Global Moderator
Member since: Feb 04




Posts: 2831
Location: Toronto


Quote:
Originally posted by Garvo Gujarati
It looks like Pratik is using numbers to justify his exclusion, but he does not believe in numbers to justify his inclusion.

Two different criteria.

:)

I started quoting numbers because everyone seems to be hung over with averages and number of matches, etc.
I'm fine using whatever criteria anyone chooses - as long as we can get results.
I have nothing personal against Agarkar or anyone else - my peeve is simply the number of matches that we are not winning in recent times.
I'm fine with picking whoever as long as we win the games.
But when we have such a poor record in both one day and tests, we are obviously doing something wrong.

I'm sorry but I just can't see Agarkar as the spearhead of our bowling attack.
He's a 4th or 5th bowler at best, and that too occasionally.
And he's got no claims to being an all-rounder.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."

-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"

 
Post ID: 102345 21-06-07 10:49:42
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Surjeet
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Member since: Nov 01




Posts: 47
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Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
I'm sorry but I just can't see Agarkar as the spearhead of our bowling attack.
He's a 4th or 5th bowler at best, and that too occasionally.



Your baseless perception.


Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
And he's got no claims to being an all-rounder.



Agreed.

And he is not claiming himself an all rounder either. Nobody is picking him because of an all-rounder image. He is a perfect bowler having highest wicket taking ability in the current squad.



 
Post ID: 102347 21-06-07 11:07:10
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puttoo
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Member since: Jan 05




Posts: 1096
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Pratick .... i personal am not too fond of Agarkar myself ... but given the present situation he is what we got as far as mix of experience / talent / fitness is concerned .....
as far as number of matches we are wining ..... well it is not becuase Agarkar is playing ..... if he is replaced we are not going to start winning all of a sudden .... the team mangement is trying new faces .... they tried a few new faces in Bangladesh ...... they could not bother even the bangladesh batsmen .... do you think they can perform in England... the simple truth is we lost track in the last two years ..... after all we were performing well under Ganguly & had a decent record .... things went horribly wrong with Greg Chappel ...... Dont know who is to blame .... but things took turn for worst during his tenure .....



 
Post ID: 102348 21-06-07 11:08:08
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pratickm
Global Moderator
Member since: Feb 04




Posts: 2831
Location: Toronto


Quote:
Originally posted by puttoo
as far as number of matches we are wining ..... well it is not becuase Agarkar is playing ..... if he is replaced we are not going to start winning all of a sudden ....

That I agree with.
And I never said that he's to be blamed.
Our problems are twofold - lack of wicket taking, match-winning bowlers (like Akram, McGrath, Murli, etc.) and the spineless batting lineup we have (openers being part of the problem).
Quote:
after all we were performing well under Ganguly & had a decent record .... things went horribly wrong with Greg Chappel ...... Dont know who is to blame .... but things took turn for worst during his tenure .....
Agreed.
We were doing great under Azhar until he was banished for corruption.
We were doing fine under Ganguly until he got cocky, his form dropped and all types of controversies started.
Coach might be part of the problem, but I don't think it's the coash entirely.
Unfortunately, Kumble is the most wicket taking bowler we have right now.
His days are almost over, and we have no replacement in sight - fast or spin.
I would prefer that we start investing in and grooming youngsters - both in batting as well as bowling.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."

-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"

 
Last edited by: pratickm on 21-06-07 11:28:22
Post ID: 102353 21-06-07 11:26:37
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Maharaj
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Member since: Oct 02




Posts: 1721
Location: Brampton


Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
And he's got no claims to being an all-rounder.


Tag is given by the people, media & former players. Agarkar started off great with both bat & bowl. He did show some glimpses with Bat. But as you pointed out earlier - he lost all his confidence in his batting after that dreadful Australian Tour. It was his first tour to Australia and he could not adjust. I think it was Manjrekar I heard on TV saying it all happened because of his Very High Back Lift. Pitty, nobody corrected him during the Tour despite having Coach (I think Kapil).

Laxman was utter failure on that tour till that last inning in Sydney (which I think revived his career) where he scored 100+ after been dropped twice (at least) and bulk of his scoring was through 3rd man (edges). He was to return back after test series - Kapil & Tendulkar (captain) asked selectors to keep him around in ODIs and he failed even to reach two figures (not once). Funny enough, he was dropped for one match against Pak & India Won.

I would say Pathan is in the same Boat as Agarkar was.


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Mumbai Maazi Ladki ...

 
Post ID: 102354 21-06-07 11:29:16
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puttoo
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Posts: 1096
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Maharaj .... dont know where you people get your facts ....... the century you are talking about was the start of his bect performance against Australia. After Sydney test .... Australia came to India & they won the first test ..... it was at Kolkata where he showned his grit & determination ... goin on to score a career best of 281 ..... India won that series in India thanks to his performance ..... then again in 2003 -04 ... he was part of squad & was instrumental in India regaining the border-gavaskar trophy as we drew the series .... again he scored two centuries .... in Australia .....so dont know what you mean to say that after his hundred he neveer reached double figures..... he went on to make triple figures .....


Quote:
Originally posted by Maharaj


Laxman was utter failure on that tour till that last inning in Sydney (which I think revived his career) where he scored 100+ after been dropped twice (at least) and bulk of his scoring was through 3rd man (edges). He was to return back after test series - Kapil & Tendulkar (captain) asked selectors to keep him around in ODIs and he failed even to reach two figures (not once). Funny enough, he was dropped for one match against Pak & India Won.

I would say Pathan is in the same Boat as Agarkar was.




 
Last edited by: puttoo on 21-06-07 12:08:17
Post ID: 102361 21-06-07 12:07:51
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Contributors:
7wonders(2)  desi in ottawa(4)  febpreet(1)  Garvo Gujarati(4)  hchheda(2)  kalia(1)  Maharaj(19)  
pratickm(23)  puttoo(34)  Surjeet(7)  
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