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Sehawag, Bhajji, Munaf out of tour




puttoo
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 05




Posts: 1096
Location:


Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm

Ajit Agarkar is the latest example.
He has never quite performed to "potential", which is dubious in the first place.
Dismal batting performance and not too impressive bowling either.

Yet he continues to figure in almost all major series and tournaments.





Once India starts loosing matches .... every one starts becoming an expert...... Let me tell a few things about Ajit Agarkar .... dont know what makes you think his credential are dubious ..... he is a bowler who has got fastest 50 wickets in one dayers...... now that you can only do if you have potential ..... below i have compiled the career stats of agarkar with Zaheer & Kumble .... he matches up to both of them in performance ......

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=compare;playerid=7678;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;team=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=0;homeaway=0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefault=2000-10-03;start=2000-10-03;enddefault=2007-06-09;end=2007-06-09;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0;captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;runslow=;runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=;ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caughtlow=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;viewtype=com_compare;csearch=ajit%20agarkar;cplayerid=7129;comparetype=aro_summary;compare=1;.cgifields=cplayerid;.cgifields=comparetype
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=compare;playerid=1973;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;team=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=0;homeaway=0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefault=1990-04-25;start=1990-04-25;enddefault=2007-03-19;end=2007-03-19;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0;captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;runslow=;runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=;ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caughtlow=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;viewtype=com_compare;csearch=ajit%20agarkar;cplayerid=7129;comparetype=aro_summary;compare=1;.cgifields=cplayerid;.cgifields=comparetype

In brief if i may put it Ajit has a bowling average of 27.55 to Zaheeers 27.60 and Kumbles 30.89. Even Sreesanth, who has a lot of potential, has an average of 31.83.

Records speak for themsleves ...... now Agarkar alone will not win you matches .... no bowler in world has done that as yet ..... it is a team sport & will need inputs from all 11 players......


 
Last edited by: puttoo on 20-06-07 13:06:57
Post ID: 102242 20-06-07 13:05:17
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7wonders
Senior Desi
Member since: Aug 03




Posts: 518
Location: Toronto


If I am not wrong Ajit agarkar has got only 13 wickets in last 10 matches..
Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St

filtered 10 58 40 11.60 0 0 13 3/38 32.30 0 2 0


that is not good for any experienced bowler.

Zaheer
filtered 10 31 15* 31.00 0 0 16 5/42 24.25 1 0 0




Quote:
Originally posted by puttoo

Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm

Ajit Agarkar is the latest example.
He has never quite performed to "potential", which is dubious in the first place.
Dismal batting performance and not too impressive bowling either.

Yet he continues to figure in almost all major series and tournaments.





Once India starts loosing matches .... every one starts becoming an expert...... Let me tell a few things about Ajit Agarkar .... dont know what makes you think his credential are dubious ..... he is a bowler who has got fastest 50 wickets in one dayers...... now that you can only do if you have potential ..... below i have compiled the career stats of agarkar with Zaheer & Kumble .... he matches up to both of them in performance ......

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=compare;playerid=7678;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;team=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=0;homeaway=0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefault=2000-10-03;start=2000-10-03;enddefault=2007-06-09;end=2007-06-09;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0;captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;runslow=;runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=;ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caughtlow=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;viewtype=com_compare;csearch=ajit%20agarkar;cplayerid=7129;comparetype=aro_summary;compare=1;.cgifields=cplayerid;.cgifields=comparetype
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=compare;playerid=1973;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;team=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=0;homeaway=0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefault=1990-04-25;start=1990-04-25;enddefault=2007-03-19;end=2007-03-19;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0;captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;runslow=;runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=;ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caughtlow=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;viewtype=com_compare;csearch=ajit%20agarkar;cplayerid=7129;comparetype=aro_summary;compare=1;.cgifields=cplayerid;.cgifields=comparetype

In brief if i may put it Ajit has a bowling average of 27.55 to Zaheeers 27.60 and Kumbles 30.89. Even Sreesanth, who has a lot of potential, has an average of 31.83.

Records speak for themsleves ...... now Agarkar alone will not win you matches .... no bowler in world has done that as yet ..... it is a team sport & will need inputs from all 11 players......


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Post ID: 102247 20-06-07 13:45:45
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pratickm
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Member since: Feb 04




Posts: 2831
Location: Toronto


Quote:
Originally posted by Surjeet
So, he is far better than anyone else!!!
BTW, I am not Ajit agarkar's fan, just wanted to make a point that he is there based on his performace and nothing else.

He is also as young as Zahir Khan.

It's not about the numbers.
In fact, the stats you quoted actually prove how futile it is to look only at averages and numbers and not the overall value of a player.

Based on your numbers, it would appear that Ajit Agarkar is a much accomplished and dangeous fast bowler than Kapil Dev and Wasim Akram.

Do you sincerely believe that is correct?

Kapil Dev was the greatest match winner we have had in recent time.
Anyway, the comparison is not fair because Kapil Dev's career was during a period when Test Matches were much considered more important and there were fewer one day matches.
The format and style of the game has also changed a lot since then.

However, Wasim Akram was one of the most feared and accomplished fast bowlers in both one day and tests and instilled fear in the minds of the best batsmen.

I'm sure if you compare stats with the likes to Michael Holding and Andy Roberts, Ajit Agarkar will probably fare better - but does that mean he is actually a better bowler?

Comparison with Sreesanth is not fair because he is too new.

Ajit Agarkar has been around since 1998 in one dayers.
i.e. is almost 10 years now.
Do you think his record does justice to someone who has been playing international cricket for 10 years?

People who are expected to play for 10 years should have a much better record than that.
He has taken 5 wickets in an innings only twice in this 9 year period.

I can hardly think of any games where Ajit Agarkar helped India win the match - either test or one-dayer.

I'm not suggesting that he's there because of any political influence or preferential treatment - it may be just that the selectors don't have any betteer choice.
Which in a way is worse because it means we can't produce any better quality all rounder in the past 10 years than Agarkar.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."

-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"

 
Post ID: 102249 20-06-07 14:02:19
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puttoo
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 05




Posts: 1096
Location:


7 wonders ...... his performance in the world cup was not good & that is why he was dropped for the bangladesh tour .... so what did we get in bangladesh.... we tried a few new bowlers & they did not make the mark.... if they cant bowl out bangladesh do you think they stand a chance against englan and south africa. So we have now Zaheer & Agarkar as the experienced bowlers supported by a team of new bowlers.

Pratick ..... check the records of michael holding / andy roberts .... they speak for themselves ..... their avg. is 21.36 and 20.35 respectively ..... as for Wasim he is at 23.52 .... even after playing more then 300+ matches....


 
Post ID: 102251 20-06-07 14:25:42
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Surjeet
Junior Desi
Member since: Nov 01




Posts: 47
Location:


Quote:
Originally posted by 7wonders

If I am not wrong Ajit agarkar has got only 13 wickets in last 10 matches..
Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St

filtered 10 58 40 11.60 0 0 13 3/38 32.30 0 2 0


that is not good for any experienced bowler.

Zaheer
filtered 10 31 15* 31.00 0 0 16 5/42 24.25 1 0 0




Quote:
Originally posted by puttoo

Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm

Ajit Agarkar is the latest example.
He has never quite performed to "potential", which is dubious in the first place.
Dismal batting performance and not too impressive bowling either.

Yet he continues to figure in almost all major series and tournaments.





Once India starts loosing matches .... every one starts becoming an expert...... Let me tell a few things about Ajit Agarkar .... dont know what makes you think his credential are dubious ..... he is a bowler who has got fastest 50 wickets in one dayers...... now that you can only do if you have potential ..... below i have compiled the career stats of agarkar with Zaheer & Kumble .... he matches up to both of them in performance ......

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=compare;playerid=7678;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;team=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=0;homeaway=0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefault=2000-10-03;start=2000-10-03;enddefault=2007-06-09;end=2007-06-09;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0;captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;runslow=;runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=;ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caughtlow=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;viewtype=com_compare;csearch=ajit%20agarkar;cplayerid=7129;comparetype=aro_summary;compare=1;.cgifields=cplayerid;.cgifields=comparetype
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=compare;playerid=1973;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;team=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=0;homeaway=0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefault=1990-04-25;start=1990-04-25;enddefault=2007-03-19;end=2007-03-19;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;scheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0;captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;runslow=;runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=;ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wicketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caughtlow=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;viewtype=com_compare;csearch=ajit%20agarkar;cplayerid=7129;comparetype=aro_summary;compare=1;.cgifields=cplayerid;.cgifields=comparetype

In brief if i may put it Ajit has a bowling average of 27.55 to Zaheeers 27.60 and Kumbles 30.89. Even Sreesanth, who has a lot of potential, has an average of 31.83.

Records speak for themsleves ...... now Agarkar alone will not win you matches .... no bowler in world has done that as yet ..... it is a team sport & will need inputs from all 11 players......





So according to you the poorest performance of Ajit Agarkar is 1.3 wickets per match! That is far better than career average of Kapil Dev. According to this Criteria Kapil Should have been dropped form the team after play 10 matches.

In one day the average wickets per bowler are always less than 1.5. You can not expect someone to have 50 wickets in 10 OCIs.

According to me Ajit Agarkar always took a wicket.

And fear of Kapil bowling? Than why did it not reflected in his bowling performance?


 
Post ID: 102253 20-06-07 14:38:52
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pratickm
Global Moderator
Member since: Feb 04




Posts: 2831
Location: Toronto


Quote:
Originally posted by Surjeet
According to me Ajit Agarkar always took a wicket.

And fear of Kapil bowling? Than why did it not reflected in his bowling performance?

I never said batsmen feared Kapil's bowling.
I said Wasim Akram was more feared than Kapil, although both were great bowlers in their own ways.

But seriously guys, are we comparing Akram and Kapil to Agarkar.
Tell me you are kidding.

Quote:
Pratick ..... check the records of michael holding / andy roberts .... they speak for themselves ..... their avg. is 21.36 and 20.35 respectively ..... as for Wasim he is at 23.52 .... even after playing more then 300+ matches....
So if you were the selector for a cricket team and had the freedom to pick whoever you wanted, you will seriously pick Ajit Agarkar instead of Wasim Akram, Michael Holding or Andy Roberts?

How about Imran Khan (ave 1.04 - the lowest amongst all the ones we have talked about so far)?

You will solely go by averages?

Players like Agarkar and Robin Singh are like "fillers" - you use them when you want to rest more seasoned players, or when you have already won/lost a series and are playing a match that doesn't matter.
Or when you are playing against Holland or Canada ;)

When players like Robin Singh and Agarkar become permanent members of a team, then you know you have a problem.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."

-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"

 
Post ID: 102272 20-06-07 16:14:17
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Maharaj
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Member since: Oct 02




Posts: 1721
Location: Brampton


Quote:
Originally posted by Surjeet
According to me Ajit Agarkar always took a wicket.


Lately he has been good. Specially against Left Handers.

But there are much 'bigger' problems than Agarkar specially in Batting.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mumbai Maazi Ladki ...

 
Post ID: 102274 20-06-07 16:24:08
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pratickm
Global Moderator
Member since: Feb 04




Posts: 2831
Location: Toronto


Quote:
Originally posted by Maharaj
But there are much 'bigger' problems than Agarkar specially in Batting.

Agreed. Our opening batsment are not very solid.
They do not offer consistent protection and run base for the middle order.
A good opening pair is a necessary ingredient to every successful team.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."

-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"

 
Post ID: 102276 20-06-07 16:27:45
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puttoo
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 05




Posts: 1096
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Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm

[quoteWhen players like Robin Singh and Agarkar become permanent members of a team, then you know you have a problem.



i wouldn't put agarkar & robin singh on the same scale.... personally Agarkar is a better player .... well this is the sad part of this that we DONT have anyone so far who has shown promise & can replace Agarkar at this position .... he will be in the team as long as you get anyone who can replace him.... same is ths story with batting .... most of the seniors are there because we dont have younger players that have performed at the international level... sad but true


 
Post ID: 102277 20-06-07 16:31:02
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puttoo
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Member since: Jan 05




Posts: 1096
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Quote:
So if you were the selector for a cricket team and had the freedom to pick whoever you wanted, you will seriously pick Ajit Agarkar instead of Wasim Akram, Michael Holding or Andy Roberts?




I would pick Agarkar ... he is the only one playing now and can play for India , as he is an Indian :D


 
Last edited by: puttoo on 20-06-07 16:38:50
Post ID: 102279 20-06-07 16:38:05
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Contributors:
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