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Tamil Nadu: Social Change initiated from South India !




This thread was triggered off by an off the cuff remark made by Jake 3D who had mentioned in one of my former threads that these tamils are no way of the type I had grown up in chembur/matunga/sion. I totally agree with the statement. The tamils you find in these areas versus the Dharavi are totally different.The types you would find in the above said areas are from Palghat while the ones who used to live in the later area are basically from South of South. Today these ones from the later area are all in Kalyan as they have been displaced by you know who ?.

But the tamils off late have been socially/financially/economically very active and have been catalyst for social change in India, which eventually land up on your shore.This can be all traced back to one person EVR Periyar a social reformer from Tamil nadu who was very active in mid 2000's in Tamil Nadu.

1.Sabarimala, Kerala: It is said the god of sabarimala known as Ayappa is a bachelor and hence girls under 10 and women above 50 were only allowed to go this temple. Two actresses recently have said that they have visited this temple at the prime of their youth and even touched the deity. This had lead to political storm and purification of the temple have started. The reason this all started was due to a astrologer living in Chennai had done a reading and had found that women in their prime of the youth have visited the temple and hence the holiness of the temple was lost.

This has started a debate with people which talks about equality of man and women. Why should a lady in the prime of her youth should not be able to go this temple and why shouldn't she be a priest ?. This is in the same lines as the social change initiator Mr.EVR Periyar from Tamil Nadu who initiated the social change for allowing people of lower castes to enter the temples, which led to land reform act and later to reservation in education upto 69% in Tamil Nadu. This happened in late 1930's and this had ended up in the parliament in 2006 with a bill. It took 75 years to this happen, how long will it take for the current social change to happen ?.

My question to the forum is the following: \\\\\\\"Is a lady in the prime of her youth impure for 3 days\\\\\\\" ?.

2.Meera Jasmine, Kerala: An actress from Kerala currently doing well in Tamil Nadu and living in Chennai had recently visited a Kali Temple in Kerala and later on had to pay Rs.50,000 for cleaning and purification of the temple as she was a christian.

My question to the forum is the following:When churches & gurudwaras allow anybody to visit them and pray why not a temple?. This question has again been raised in TamilNadu currently among the social reformist and intellectuals.

3.Pro Reservation for OBC's in Higher Education in India: Eventhough everybody ascribes to Mandal commission, VP Singh and Arjun singh for the above movement, the roots of the same have been from Tamil Nadu, even this current move has been strengthened due to the presence of tamils in the central cabinet like Anbumani Ramdoss(Our Health Minister known for his controversies including the one involving AIIMS), P Chidamabram and the DMK.Everytime the issue brought about Tamil Nadu and its reservation policy is used as an evidence for the success for the reservation and it is no longer called reservations but \\\"Affirmative Action\\\" by the tamils.

I do not have any question on this topic as the base itself is quite controversial.

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"When we were young kids growing up in America, we were told to eat our
vegetables at dinner and not leave them. Mothers said, 'think of the
starving children in India and finish the dinner.' And now I tell my
children: 'Finish your maths homework. Think of the children in India
who would make you starve, if you don't.'"

 
shankaracharya

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Post ID: 81932 23-07-06 18:37:05
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Timon
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Shankara,

I dont agree that Sabari mala and Meera Jasmine issue has anything to do with Tamil Nadu. Both of them have their origins in Kerala. I dont know why they are being discussed under the heading \" Tamil Nadu-Social Change initiated from South India\".


T

foot note: As you might be aware of, Adi Shankaracharya was borne in Kerala.






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"The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side of the fence. Fences have nothing to do with it. The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing over fences, carry water with you and tend the grass wherever you may be"

 
Post ID: 81939 23-07-06 20:30:29
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Ottawa_Nerd
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Member since: Jan 04




Posts: 1754
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Well Shankracharya..correct me if I am wrong.. I can indeed go to a Catholic church and pray there ( I have been to some myself )..However, I cannot get the bread-dipped-in-wine from the Pastor..as I am not a Catholic..at least being Male I can get away with it.. Hindu women cant..esp those who have "Bindi's" can't..

Abt "reservation bringing abou a social revolution"..well all the highly educated Tamil's (the so called Forward caste's) easily migrate to the USA... and you have such high ranking Tamil Brahmins in the USA... and other parts of the world.. DUe to the myopic policies of the Dravidian movement...those Tamils could have stayed back in India and made Chennai a true Megapolis... The only institute left untouched was IIT Chennai...but now courtesy of Arjun Singh & Co...that will soon change..

I really want all the "forward caste's" to get whatever they can garner from Higher educational institutes and leave OBC-land ASAP... OBC-land doesnt need them... Their worth is well recognized outside OBC land..and not with ppl having sub-standard knowledge...

Oh BTW...
Forward Caste = anyone who rises based on merit and not on reservation...

Anbumani Ramadoss is an A******e...and he should be consigned to the dustbins of history... he is not a global player and can only think locally...

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Post ID: 81944 23-07-06 22:32:57
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Nightmare
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Quote:
Originally posted by shankaracharya

This thread was triggered off by an off the cuff remark made by Jake 3D who had mentioned in one of my former threads that these tamils are no way of the type I had grown up in chembur/matunga/sion. I totally agree with the statement. The tamils you find in these areas versus the Dharavi are totally different.The types you would find in the above said areas are from Palghat while the ones who used to live in the later area are basically from South of South. Today these ones from the later area are all in Kalyan as they have been displaced by you know who ?.

But the tamils off late have been socially/financially/economically very active and have been catalyst for social change in India, which eventually land up on your shore.This can be all traced back to one person EVR Periyar a social reformer from Tamil nadu who was very active in mid 2000's in Tamil Nadu.

1.Sabarimala, Kerala: It is said the god of sabarimala known as Ayappa is a bachelor and hence girls under 10 and women above 50 were only allowed to go this temple. Two actresses recently have said that they have visited this temple at the prime of their youth and even touched the deity. This had lead to political storm and purification of the temple have started. The reason this all started was due to a astrologer living in Chennai had done a reading and had found that women in their prime of the youth have visited the temple and hence the holiness of the temple was lost.

This has started a debate with people which talks about equality of man and women. Why should a lady in the prime of her youth should not be able to go this temple and why shouldn't she be a priest ?. This is in the same lines as the social change initiator Mr.EVR Periyar from Tamil Nadu who initiated the social change for allowing people of lower castes to enter the temples, which led to land reform act and later to reservation in education upto 69% in Tamil Nadu. This happened in late 1930's and this had ended up in the parliament in 2006 with a bill. It took 75 years to this happen, how long will it take for the current social change to happen ?.

My question to the forum is the following: \\\\\\\"Is a lady in the prime of her youth impure for 3 days\\\\\\\" ?.

2.Meera Jasmine, Kerala: An actress from Kerala currently doing well in Tamil Nadu and living in Chennai had recently visited a Kali Temple in Kerala and later on had to pay Rs.50,000 for cleaning and purification of the temple as she was a christian.

My question to the forum is the following:When churches & gurudwaras allow anybody to visit them and pray why not a temple?. This question has again been raised in TamilNadu currently among the social reformist and intellectuals.

3.Pro Reservation for OBC's in Higher Education in India: Eventhough everybody ascribes to Mandal commission, VP Singh and Arjun singh for the above movement, the roots of the same have been from Tamil Nadu, even this current move has been strengthened due to the presence of tamils in the central cabinet like Anbumani Ramdoss(Our Health Minister known for his controversies including the one involving AIIMS), P Chidamabram and the DMK.Everytime the issue brought about Tamil Nadu and its reservation policy is used as an evidence for the success for the reservation and it is no longer called reservations but \\\"Affirmative Action\\\" by the tamils.

I do not have any question on this topic as the base itself is quite controversial.


Shankracharya,

It is so obvious that you are from very backward state. Gujarat has much more liberal customs and traditions and hence never needed a fanatic like Periyar. I am from Gujarat and we have several temples where priestess performs Pooja on regular basis.

I also had a friend named Joseph from Kerala but posted at Ahmedabad and had several times accompanied me to famous Kali temple at Bhadra in Ahmedabad.

If some of the temples have their own customs, you can not fault others.

The so called Periyar type social changes initiated have obviously failed and the proof of that is that now Tamilians are most divided people of India on caste basis which have been obliterated in Gujarat except for Schedule castes and that too in villages. In large towns and cities, no one cares about the caste. However these Periyar followers are bound to revive caste divide. Shame on Periyar and his followers whom I consider anti India.

I do not know what prompted you to post the above topic #3 especially when you have no question.

Anbumani is a crazed person and PC has failed as a finance minister. They champion partisan politics and hence not good Indians. PC has recently modified Saral tax form which will lead to harassment of honest tax payers but will fill up UPA coffers. He has a really dirty mind.

I googled Anbumani and PC and found very interesting articles exposing these guys. Unfortunately, I do not know how to post a link buy you can try it. You will certainly be enlightened


 
Post ID: 81952 24-07-06 00:02:27
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jughead
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Member since: Jun 04




Posts: 186
Location: Burnaby, BC


Not another Tamil thread! Couldn't resist from responding, though! :)

Quote:
Originally posted by shankaracharya
But the tamils off late have been socially/financially/economically very active and have been catalyst for social change in India, which eventually land up on your shore.



-- Your shore? Whom are you talking to?

Quote:

This can be all traced back to one person EVR Periyar a social reformer from Tamil nadu who was very active in mid 2000's in Tamil Nadu.



-- I presume you meant to say mid 20th century.

I don't want to comment on the Temple purification issue. I do agree that every society or religion needs reforms to adjust to the changing times.

But - Do you call publicly beating up idols of Hindu Gods with slippers a reform? (isn't that one of the annual rituals of these followers of Periyar?) Or publicly decrying that one who worships God is a barbarian, a reform? Or assaulting members of a particular caste, and ripping off their sacred threads (the so-called forward castes) on the streets, a reform?

69% reservation (SC, ST, MBC and BC) in Tamil Nadu is ridiculous. Since the 60's or 70's, every government has shifted one caste or the other from forward to backward or backward to most-backward, and increasing the reservation quota in the process. Some reform, eh?

The so-called forward caste is a minority in TN, and politicians don't really need their votes. They just want to keep these so-called backward and most-backward people happy, so no government would dare change this reservation.

Yes, many Tamils made it successful all over the world like you mentioned, but I think it was despite the system, these leaders, and their so-called reforms, and not because of them.


 
Post ID: 81954 24-07-06 00:40:26
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Ottawa_Nerd
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Member since: Jan 04




Posts: 1754
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)


Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare

Quote:
Originally posted by shankaracharya

This thread was triggered off by an off the cuff remark made by Jake 3D who had mentioned in one of my former threads that these tamils are no way of the type I had grown up in chembur/matunga/sion. I totally agree with the statement. The tamils you find in these areas versus the Dharavi are totally different.The types you would find in the above said areas are from Palghat while the ones who used to live in the later area are basically from South of South. Today these ones from the later area are all in Kalyan as they have been displaced by you know who ?.

But the tamils off late have been socially/financially/economically very active and have been catalyst for social change in India, which eventually land up on your shore.This can be all traced back to one person EVR Periyar a social reformer from Tamil nadu who was very active in mid 2000's in Tamil Nadu.

1.Sabarimala, Kerala: It is said the god of sabarimala known as Ayappa is a bachelor and hence girls under 10 and women above 50 were only allowed to go this temple. Two actresses recently have said that they have visited this temple at the prime of their youth and even touched the deity. This had lead to political storm and purification of the temple have started. The reason this all started was due to a astrologer living in Chennai had done a reading and had found that women in their prime of the youth have visited the temple and hence the holiness of the temple was lost.

This has started a debate with people which talks about equality of man and women. Why should a lady in the prime of her youth should not be able to go this temple and why shouldn't she be a priest ?. This is in the same lines as the social change initiator Mr.EVR Periyar from Tamil Nadu who initiated the social change for allowing people of lower castes to enter the temples, which led to land reform act and later to reservation in education upto 69% in Tamil Nadu. This happened in late 1930's and this had ended up in the parliament in 2006 with a bill. It took 75 years to this happen, how long will it take for the current social change to happen ?.

My question to the forum is the following: \\\\\\\"Is a lady in the prime of her youth impure for 3 days\\\\\\\" ?.

2.Meera Jasmine, Kerala: An actress from Kerala currently doing well in Tamil Nadu and living in Chennai had recently visited a Kali Temple in Kerala and later on had to pay Rs.50,000 for cleaning and purification of the temple as she was a christian.

My question to the forum is the following:When churches & gurudwaras allow anybody to visit them and pray why not a temple?. This question has again been raised in TamilNadu currently among the social reformist and intellectuals.

3.Pro Reservation for OBC's in Higher Education in India: Eventhough everybody ascribes to Mandal commission, VP Singh and Arjun singh for the above movement, the roots of the same have been from Tamil Nadu, even this current move has been strengthened due to the presence of tamils in the central cabinet like Anbumani Ramdoss(Our Health Minister known for his controversies including the one involving AIIMS), P Chidamabram and the DMK.Everytime the issue brought about Tamil Nadu and its reservation policy is used as an evidence for the success for the reservation and it is no longer called reservations but \\\"Affirmative Action\\\" by the tamils.

I do not have any question on this topic as the base itself is quite controversial.


Shankracharya,

It is so obvious that you are from very backward state. Gujarat has much more liberal customs and traditions and hence never needed a fanatic like Periyar. I am from Gujarat and we have several temples where priestess performs Pooja on regular basis.

I also had a friend named Joseph from Kerala but posted at Ahmedabad and had several times accompanied me to famous Kali temple at Bhadra in Ahmedabad.

If some of the temples have their own customs, you can not fault others.

The so called Periyar type social changes initiated have obviously failed and the proof of that is that now Tamilians are most divided people of India on caste basis which have been obliterated in Gujarat except for Schedule castes and that too in villages. In large towns and cities, no one cares about the caste. However these Periyar followers are bound to revive caste divide. Shame on Periyar and his followers whom I consider anti India.

I do not know what prompted you to post the above topic #3 especially when you have no question.

Anbumani is a crazed person and PC has failed as a finance minister. They champion partisan politics and hence not good Indians. PC has recently modified Saral tax form which will lead to harassment of honest tax payers but will fill up UPA coffers. He has a really dirty mind.

I googled Anbumani and PC and found very interesting articles exposing these guys. Unfortunately, I do not know how to post a link buy you can try it. You will certainly be enlightened



Nightmare, I dont know Shankracharya's caste. However, are you sure that Gujarat has absolutely no caste system ? Pls check any Matrimonial site...
"Hindu Patel Girl..seeking a Hindu Patel Boy"..."Vaishnav seeking Vaishnav"...
If that is not caste, what is caste then ? I was a victim of the caste system in Andhra Pradesh when I was finishing my Engg studies...but I still oppose "caste-based" reservations...
It has to be solely on family income...nothing more and nothing less....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Aur Vaise Bhi, Sharafat ki jab kapde utarti hai, sabse zyaada mazaa shareefon ko hi aati hai"....(From The Dirty Picture)

Warning !! SCAM ALERT !!
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=4169 & http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=1379
This is a Useful Health related Tip
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=3865
Please visit
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php for some interesting Information ! (Especially 009.005 )

 
Post ID: 81955 24-07-06 01:08:25
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meghal
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Gujarat - social progress and caste system
Quote:
Originally posted by Ottawa_Nerd

However, are you sure that Gujarat has absolutely no caste system ? Pls check any Matrimonial site...



I am not a sociologist. But comparing Gujarat to any other Indian system with respect to social progress and caste system would be an unjust comparison.

Yes. People still are narrow minded when it comes to marriage. Except marriage, I believe caste system isn't that deeply embedded in Gujarati's psyche in everyday affairs.

Why? I do not know. Maybe the fact that lots of Gujarati's ventured outside Gujarat and outside India long before Portugese came to India maybe the reason for social tolerance. Gujaratis were not afraid of committing a sin by crossing seven seas.

It may also have to do with the absence of "zamindaari" system. There is not a majority of socially oppressed class in Gujarat. Economic propsperity may have contributed to the tolerance level of Gujaratis.

Also, the heavy of influence of Jainism (one of the reason why most Gujaratis are vegetarian), and at later stage, Sahajanand Swami (founder of Swaminarayan sect) may also have contributed to the erasure of class system. (On side note, Dayanand Sarawati was also a Gujarati but IMHO, he propsered in Punjaab).

Talking of social reforms, if Tamilnady boasts of a person who rose to prominence in mid 20th century, Gujarat had Narsinh Mehta in 15th century, who had the courage to go to a "ghetto" and mingle with lower caste people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsinh_Mehta

Even in 20th century, a poet-writer called Narmad pioneered social reform by marrying a widow. But I believe Gandhiji can be considered as the pioneer of social reforms and women's lib in Gujarat.

I recall meeting a guy from Tamilnadu whom I met in 1994, who was not allowed to see his fiancee, and has to smuggle his photograph. Such a thing is unheard of in modern Gujarat. Also, dowry system is not much prevalent in Gujarat.

Yes, prejudiced and biased people are everywhere. But on an whole, I would put Gujarat as a socially progressive state.

It is interesting to see that even Gujarati literature portrays Gujarat as a progressive state. There is almost no mention of a oppressive zameendaar, suppressed hungry poor villagers, oppressed and battered women. Maybe because it is difficult to find such strata of people in Gujarati society.

Meghal (a proud Gujarati)

P,S - Perhaps the best person to answer this thread would be late writer Chandrakant Bakshi


 
Post ID: 81994 24-07-06 13:30:04
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Desi Raja
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I think Shank.. hasn't visited any mosques in Chennai where it is clearly mentioned that Non-Muslims are not allowed inside..

 
Post ID: 82000 24-07-06 15:10:51
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jake3d
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ottawa_Nerd

Well Shankracharya..correct me if I am wrong.. I can indeed go to a Catholic church and pray there ( I have been to some myself )..However, I cannot get the bread-dipped-in-wine from the Pastor..as I am not a Catholic..


Partially correct. If you have not had the rite of first holy communion you cannot receive the host(bread dipped in wine). This holds true EVEN if you are catholic. Actually even if we have received the rite of 'first holy communion', we are taught not to go for communion unless we 'Confess' our sins first.

Quote:

at least being Male I can get away with it.. Hindu women cant..esp those who have "Bindi's" can't..




Wrong! My mom regularly wears a bindi and I have not yet seen anyone stop her. Similarly my wife wears a bindi when in traditional clothes.

So a hindu woman can 'get away with it' technically. ;) . Just as a Christian man/woman can in any hindu temple as I have plenty of times.

Ofcourse, we are into another idiotic 'tamil culture' debate so please dont let us digress. :D

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Last edited by: jake3d on 24-07-06 15:29:08
Post ID: 82001 24-07-06 15:25:48
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BlueLobsterMember of Administrators
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Quote:
Originally posted by jake3d


Ofcourse, we are into another idiotic 'tamil culture' debate so please dont let us digress. :D



That seems to be what Shanky's all about :D. Its like a little kid vying for attention on behalf of the whole tamil community. When some mature coversation drifts towards the generic, the kid has to jump up and down, up n and down shouting "Look at me, look at me!!".

Or is it (read in the Mike Myers rendition of Dr. Evil's voice) "I'm an intellectual! I'm a Phd! Here, let me spit out some high-brow topic for everyone to ponder on! Now! You! You tell me what you think. What? You think I'm delusional?" :D

Methinks its a little bit of both.

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Post ID: 82005 24-07-06 15:39:33
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Contributors:
BlueLobster(2)  Desi Raja(1)  jake3d(3)  jughead(1)  meghal(1)  Nightmare(1)  Ottawa_Nerd(3)  
ramar2005(1)  shankaracharya(1)  Timon(1)  
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