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Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations




amitcr
Senior Desi
Member since: Jun 05




Posts: 154
Location: North York, Toronto


Quote:
The reasons for the terrorism –

it all mostly boils down to the same – religion, religion and religion.



Very true. Especially when one religion teaches it's followers that there is no God but Allah and Mohd is his messenger.

The issue is about integeting with main stream society. Live and Let Live.


 
Last edited by: amitcr on 15-07-06 16:30:26
Post ID: 81354 15-07-06 16:29:37
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Ottawa_Nerd
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 04




Posts: 1754
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)


Quote:
Originally posted by amitcr

Quote:
The reasons for the terrorism –

it all mostly boils down to the same – religion, religion and religion.



Very true. Especially when one religion teaches it's followers that there is no God but Allah and Mohd is his messenger.

The issue is about integeting with main stream society. Live and Let Live.



Amit that is quite allright if Islam does have that statement.. Even Christianity has that belief abt Jesus...which is quite okay.

What is not okay with Islam is how they treat (or have feelings for non believers)...

Read the last link of my signature to find out..

Your other statement abt Pakistan asking for evidence..I agree with that... I dont believe that they are saints but I sure would like hard concrete evidence. The culprits are terrorists in India itself.. Find them..then the evidence comes out !

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Post ID: 81361 15-07-06 18:15:38
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BlueLobsterMember of Administrators
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Member since: Oct 02




Posts: 3409
Location: Mississauga


Everyone:

Please make sure your comments bear in mind religious sensitivies of others. I have no issues with people discussing terrorism however DON'T use this for Islam-bashing.

We will be forced to lock threads if that happens.


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Post ID: 81362 15-07-06 18:18:09
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ambiguity
Junior Desi
Member since: Apr 06




Posts: 15
Location:


Quote:
Ambiguity, you have spoken like a true "pseudo-liberal" (reminds me of Arundhati Roy and her Ilk..)


If confronting you with reality makes my words sound like a “pseudo-liberal” then I am proud to be one, and I am proud to be a communist (many call me that, and you can too).
Your entire post actually proves my point. Nevertheless, the existence of other "pseudo-liberals" or communists like me in the society is what makes my post worthwhile.
I am not trying to justify terrorism. I was just talking about the socio economic structures, which give birth to the rebel class, and henceforth are converted into toy terrorists by selfish politicians or people who long to gain power, or religious fanatics.
Have you ever thought about the mindset of a person who is preparing for years to be a human bomb ? Consider LTTE. They are amongst the pioneers of the concept of suicide attacks and are they religious fanatics? Are they muslims?

Quote:
But for the next, I dont see that happening in India anytime soon. You say you are an Indian (from India ?)...So are you a Hindu Indian or a Christian Indian or Sikh Indian ?...none...You are an Indian Hindu, Indian CHristian etc. !Not so with most, (if not all) Muslims in India...& pls dont talk abt Bollywood...Our own Yusuf Khan (aka Dilip Kumar) had to ask Vajpayee if he should return the award presented by the Govt of Pakistan, while we had another person by the name of Morarji Desai, who returned it immediately..shows the difference between two folks of different religions !


I don’t SAY “I am an Indian”, I AM an Indian. I feel sad when I am faced with such a question, even if it is asked sarcastically. I don subscribe to any religion or God. Go ahead, call me a “pseudo-atheist” now. I don’t attach a prefix or a suffix when I refer to myself as an Indian. Still, I will answer your question (Sad but true that it will help me to prove that I am not a muslim advocating my religion). From the social perspective, I belong to a Bengali-Hindu-Brahmin-Indian family. Sorry, that’s as far as I can go, as I don’t happen to have more details. And why just blame the muslims ? Aren’t we all suffering from this meanness ? It’s not just Hindu-Muslim-Christian-Sikh but we are also Punjabis, Gujratis, Marathis, Bengalis, Tamilians etc. first and then an Indian. I do not want to give example of Bollywood here. Neither will I give examples of politicians. Instead, let me ask you - there are muslims working with indian defense. Is there a difference between the mindset of a Hindu soldier and a Muslim soldier ? May be you thinking they all are spies for Pakistan. Or let me ask you about your view about the person who helped Canadian govt. to capture those terrorists. What you will refer to him as, an exception? May be I have seen too many of these exceptions while forming by view and u have only seen the fundamentalists. This is just my assumption based on your outlook.

Quote:
Heck... they have problems reciting Vande Maataram (a song which even revolutionaries like Ashfaqullah of the Bhagat Singh group proudly sang)..

I am willing to accept your statement and respect him/her for what he is, *IF* I am also accorded that respect. I believe in quid-pro-quo... However, I cannot get that respect as I am a Kaafir, a "Pagan" as morning_rain has stated above. I should be killed or if not I should be converted to Islam otherwise I must pay Tax to practise my religion !

However, why does a Muslim president like A.P.J.Abdul Kalam have my respect (eternal respect)? That's cos he is what any *INDIAN* dreams of being... He knows how to respect others religions (I read in his memoirs that he is an exponent of the Saraswati Veena !)...

They are having problem with singing vande matarm.



The song was written by Rishi Bankim Chandra and was considered as the national anthem (and not Jana Gana Mana) during British period. The first two words are still used as a slogan by the Indian Congress party. There are/were muslim members in the congress party. They all were not in Muslim League (who are responsible for the division of the country). Maulana Azad, Badruddin Tyebji, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan (Sarhadi Gandhi), Hakim Ajmal Khan, Dr. Ansari, Rafi Ahmad Qidwai, Ali Brothers also existed.
Then how can muslims have problem with singing Vande Mataram? why are you considering a notification of a fundamentalist muslim group as the voice of muslims? Should we think whatever the VHP, Shiv Sena, RSS, Bajrang dal are preaching, symbolizes the view of the entire Hindus?
And why just muslims again. Why don’t you talk about places where they don’t even know what national anthem is ? How many of your Hindu friends consider “Sare Jahan Se Achha” as our national anthem ? How many schools and institutions actually sing it in functions, ceremonies, etc. considering it to be the national anthem ?
How many hindus can actually sing the entire national anthem ?
Why don’t we blame them for being anti-India ?

The truth is, we don’t want the muslims to be a part of the mainstream. And we cry foul if they consider themselves segregated. With your mindset, I am sure it wouldn’t be too easy to understand.


Quote:
I dont have any sympathies for Muslims in India (or anywhere else) :
1.) Who try to rationalize Terrorism and raise the fav bogey (Islam is in Danger !)
2.) Who are Members of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board and try to act as power centers (e.g., the Supreme COurt cannot interefere with Sharia courts ! shame on them)
3.) Pseudo-secularists like Javed Akhtar and Shabana Aazmi
4.) Who put their 'Quom'-'Mazhab" over the law of the land !

Thats the problems with Muslims in the UK..and also in India.. They cannot integrate with society, with a free society ...cos they will lose their identity...a Muslim first and anything after that.



I don’t think I need to write a single word on this context. I find your concept is totally tainted with generalization (the moment you said “the muslims of India and in the UK” it generalized and brought all the Muslims of India and UK under the categories which you hate). I also can sense here the influence of my “chaddi friends” like Narendra Modi and Togdia.

Quote:
and definately I would *Never* like to call folks from SIMI my "brothers".. They are scumbags..who should be shot like the Fundus in other religions (your best pal Narendra Modi for example).. But until that happens, I am afraid to say, Narendra Modi and his ilk will exploit this "Non-Muslim" anger to the hilt andyou know what will happen next !


How can I expect you to call the SIMI folks your brothers !!!! You can’t call ANY muslim your brother as long as you view all the muslims the way you do. SIMI is an organization campaigning terrorism (yes I do think that). Do you think I still expect that from you after reading your post that oozes with hatred ?

Quote:
But until that happens, I am afraid to say, Narendra Modi and his ilk will exploit this "Non-Muslim" anger to the hilt andyou know what will happen next !

So ambiguity...pls find me more ppl like Abdul Kalam... a true Muslim for me and a "Kaafir" for others.... I will surely and sincerely like to meet such folks.



I can’t find you people like A.P.J.Abdul Kalam coz for that you need to turn into a so-called “pseudo-liberal”. Judging by your post, I can’t dare to think that.
As long as you believe in quid-pro-quo, you cannot see it. And if you think it is a good solution to the problem we are addressing, go ahead (we anyway are going ahead). I know what will happen next!!!!!

Another long note – Due to my profession, I do get in touch with people who represent the oppressed class and I do see some future terrorists in their eyes. And my thoughts are not a theory devised in an AC room with a hot cup of coffee and some half-baked conceptions gathered via the Internet. They are my personal observation where I claim, that I have tried to see both sides of the coin, based on my interactions with the communities from where a large number of terrorists came (specially the north-eastern communities of India).

The tourists injured in the latest blasts in Kashmir have said repeatedly about the cooperation of the local people throughout the entire process of facing the terrible time in a strange land (which includes carrying the injured to the hospital) In fact recently I met one of the victims of a bombing in Kashmir that occurred a few months back. He had lost his mother in it and his wife had lost a leg in the incident. During the interview he was continuously reminding us about the assistance of the masses in the valley after the explosion.

This is one of the reasons I wrote what I wrote earlier here. May be still we can make some difference. May be we still can get them in the main stream of the populace.











 
Last edited by: ambiguity on 15-07-06 19:22:06
Post ID: 81364 15-07-06 19:11:35
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amitcr
Senior Desi
Member since: Jun 05




Posts: 154
Location: North York, Toronto


Quote:
I am not trying to justify terrorism. I was just talking about the socio economic structures, which give birth to the rebel class, and henceforth are converted into toy terrorists by selfish politicians or people who long to gain power, or religious fanatics.
Have you ever thought about the mindset of a person who is preparing for years to be a human bomb ? Consider LTTE. They are amongst the pioneers of the concept of suicide attacks and are they religious fanatics? Are they muslims?



You have given a lot of excuses (reasons as you call it) for terrorism.

Kashmiri Pandits were systematically threatened, opressed, killed, murdered and asked to leave Kashmir if they wanted to live. I am sure you must be aware that the kashmiri pandit community is today facing extinction. There was a pre-planned genocide against them in their own homeland and today they are living as refugees in their own country. Yet, why is it that NOT ONE KASHMIRI PANDIT has flown air-planes into buildings, blown up commuter trains and beheaded people? Why is it that NOT A SINGLE kashmiri pandit has become a terrorist even after being opressed, discriminated and singled out for punishment.













 
Last edited by: amitcr on 15-07-06 20:49:03
Post ID: 81366 15-07-06 20:47:10
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hchheda
Senior Desi
Member since: Aug 05




Posts: 2244
Location: Woodbridge


Quote:
Originally posted by ambiguity

How many of your Hindu friends consider “Sare Jahan Se Achha” as our national anthem ? How many schools and institutions actually sing it in functions, ceremonies, etc. considering it to be the national anthem ?
How many hindus can actually sing the entire national anthem ?
Why don’t we blame them for being anti-India ?




Correction : 'Sare Jahan se Achha' isnt our national anthem...however your observations are very true, but violence is never justified for any reason whatsoever - else the Babri masjid and godhra incidents should not cause any uproar.

Hiren


 
Post ID: 81367 15-07-06 21:41:19
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amitcr
Senior Desi
Member since: Jun 05




Posts: 154
Location: North York, Toronto


Every religion has to question itself and it's practices and has to evovle over the years. Times are changing and a little bit of adjusting and practicality is never a bad thing. Whether it's hinduism, christanity, islam or buddhism or any other religion, it has to evovle and give space for other peoples thoughts and belifs.

A very interesting video. I must say a very bold lady. And yea, she raises points similar to the ones I raised with regard to kashmiri pandits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN4AL-AOyfs&search=arab%20tv

It's a news item supposedly from Al Jazeera.


 
Post ID: 81370 15-07-06 22:04:15
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Ottawa_Nerd
Senior Desi
Member since: Jan 04




Posts: 1754
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)


Umm AMbiguity... You seem to have pointed out so eloquently the reasons why I have such attitudes towards folks in India..but you, so convenietly have forgotten the "reasons" for such attitudes.. Afterall, these attitudes did not develop overnight... It took us nearly 60 years to develop.

Let me answer a question you had asked...
Why do I consider a fundamentalist Muslim organization's view, the view proscribed by Muslims ? That is because the "liberals" amongst Muslims (and I am sure there are Muslims who are liberals also..quite different from Muslims we have in our part of the world... e.g., ppl in Turkey) do not make it a point to make their voices heard.

You have also so eloquently pointed out the socio-economic conditions that force such ppl to go into "Terrorism"... I wont doubt that, and I think that is one reason why equitable distribution of wealth is necessary amongst all classes. However,
when you have a group of ppl who WANT to remain segregated by following their archaic laws and trying to impose their archaic views onto those who want to come forward..(e.g., case in hand...Sania Mirza's skirt..it was deemed "Unislamic", A daughter-in-law raped by her father-in-law cannot remain married to her husband, and many such cases !)....you really cant help them.. From your arguements...
"Doomed if I help them, Doomed if I dont"...

Please tell me, how many "liberal" muslims came out in support after the Bomb Blasts.. There was a 16% (or close to that) segment of Muslims who actually justified the 7/7/2005 London train bombings... I buy your arguement..I should not categorize all Muslims by deeds of a few a*******s.. However, when I see on Live TV banners and placards saying "Beware..7/7 will be repeated, Caliphate in Britain".. i cant help, but frame such an opinion about them....

India has given ample opportunities for ppl who wanted to come forward...
Examples being :-
1.) Azim Premji.. a Muslim..(rather a non-muslim for the Fundamentalists)...He heads a conglomerate...Now I dont see how discrimination against Muslim impeded his growth ?

2.) Sania Mirza (whom I pointed above)...and who nearly had to wear Salwar kameez when she played on court (reminds me of female athletes from Iran), not from Non Muslims, but from Muslims.. I hope, we have many more athletes who can emulate her...

3.) Munaf Patel

and many others...

The point being, if a group of ppl think that their saviour is Osama Bin Laden and Secularism, liberal values, tolerance for other religions are bad for their living, then they have NO RIGHT To remain in the country...leave alone criticize them. You may have mistaken this while you criticized me....

FYI... In order to prevent ppl from Watching Football, some "respected" ppl need to pass Fatwa's ! Now what say you ?

Without understanding the context of my previous message, you formed a conclusion about me. However, it seems I was not off mark when I made a guess about your "pseudo-liberal" attitudes...
BTW..who gave you the idea that I support MODI ? read what I said...and then reframe your opinion..If not, then I am sorry to say, I cant respond to your views anymore..You may choose to have your views and I respect that..but sorry to say, not many ppl will buy that point of view...

Oh, someone pointed out about a Traitor amongst Muslims in the Ind0-Canadian community. I sincerely hope he stays alive to expose the deeds of the 17 alleged terrorists...
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/07/13/terror--plot.html" target="_blank">http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/07/13/terror--plot.html</a>

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"Aur Vaise Bhi, Sharafat ki jab kapde utarti hai, sabse zyaada mazaa shareefon ko hi aati hai"....(From The Dirty Picture)

Warning !! SCAM ALERT !!
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Last edited by: Ottawa_Nerd on 15-07-06 22:34:45
Post ID: 81371 15-07-06 22:08:54
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jake3d
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Surprise!
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Last edited by: jake3d on 15-07-06 22:40:51
Post ID: 81372 15-07-06 22:40:11
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Nightmare
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Member since: Apr 06




Posts: 1170
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Quote:
Originally posted by ambiguity

If confronting you with reality makes my words sound like a “pseudo-liberal” then I am proud to be one, and I am proud to be a communist (many call me that, and you can too).[unquote]
======================================================
Oh that explains your mind set, views and language. The ideology which is long dead. Even your big brother China abandoned ideology long back but retains its characteristics to suppress voice of its ppl. You should be really ashamed to call your self as a communist. I view these ppl as less than sane


=====================================================
Quote:
Originally posted by ambiguity
Vande matram- The first two words are still used as a slogan by the Indian Congress party. .[unquote]
===================================================
White lie. No now these are "banned" words.
=================================================
Quote:
Originally posted by ambiguity
The truth is, we don’t want the muslims to be a part of the mainstream.
.[unquote]

===================================================
I don't know how this guy got such an idea. If any thing , a Muslim with reasonable education stands a better chance than a Hindu to go up the ladder. While I have immense respect for Abdul Kalam, whom I consider to be the best president in last 40 years, the fact remains that he got elected in part due to fact that he is a Muslim. India has never denied opprtunity to minorities and living proof of this is leading figures in film industry (KHANs), Indistry (Azim Premji), Politics (Ahmed Patel Gulam Nabi Azad, Mulayamsingh and many more. If all are listed, it will run in to 100s of pages), Sports (sania, Minaf, Pathan)

Your typical commi mind set can not think beyond your commi literature
===================================================
Quote:
Originally posted by ambiguity
"Narendra Modi" and RSS .[unquote]
======================================================
I find “Modi” bashing in almost all the posts. When riots occurred I was in Canada but some of my friends who were in Ahmedabad then and have witnessed the riots told me that peoples' fury was such that riots could not have been controlled by Police or for that matter even by ARMY on the first couple of days. Modi was not responsible for what happened and subsequent commissions have not indicted him. I am tempted to believe it because any one familiar with Indian political scenario would agree with me that in India Congress, commies ,Muslim organizations and NGOS would have flooded courts with petitions had there been a slightest chance of convicting Modi. I am not trying to defend what happened or defend Modi but pointing out that Modi bashing may not be justifiable as the accounts that you have may be tainted. If still Modi bashing is fun for you, please carry on.

Further Ambiguity is clubbing RSS and VHP together and tries to prove RSS guilty by association, something he abhors by associating Muslims with terrorist. This is typical Commi strategy which is outright dirty and shameful. By all accounts RSS is one of the most respected organizations in India known for its charitable work (like earth quake in BHUJ) . If some one wants to malign RSS, I would request to post a new thread and hence there is no digression and others can respond to it.





 
Last edited by: Nightmare on 16-07-06 02:18:55
Post ID: 81374 16-07-06 01:12:16
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