Are there any Indians or are we just a bunch of Gujjus, Bongs, Sikhs, Brahmins,
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Posted on: 11-02-06 12:51:58
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
that makes me no different to a Hitler - right? Yet we crap all over him becasue it make us look enlightened and good. At least he had the courage and the gumption to show his fanaticism and bigotry and not mask it in political correctness that we see so much of around us these days.
actually theres an interesting concept that we ourselves are the enablers of people like Hitler. He would not have come into power without endorsements (even if covert) from many people including those outside of his borders. In new age philosophy...its called the universal conciousness. Applies to both our heroes and villians. Some eastern societies have accepted it for quite some time and have simply called it 'Karma'
.Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
You sound like you have a very interesting profession. I used to be an artist in my youth - was the lead singer and guitarist in my college band, oil painter, poet, actor - then it all went horribly wrong when I completed my MBA!!!!!!!
I consider the next step in my career being that of managing teams of people to bring my creative vision to life, and am probably going to do my MBA(part-time) sometime in the future. Hows that for irony?
. Also many games and entertainment companies look for people with that right mix of artistic and management abilities. So maybe things have not gone very wrong for you.
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
I am looking for "Indians" only because I have only found a precious few and hope that there are more around. I am fortunate to have friends from my school and college days as well as friends from across the globe - I have gained immensely from the diversity of my freindships as it has taught me to be more tolerant, accepting of differences and also shown me that there is always something we can learn from another - if we only give ourselves the chance to do so.
I'm curious though, what was different about those precious few that led you to believe they're true Indians? Just trying to understand what your definition of being a true Indian is, to me its extremely complex to define.
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Are you there?
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Orginally posted by Big B
YOu make a few very valid points - when fighting for freedom a common cause united us - so we know we are capable of unity - then why can we not sustain that. During peace times all we can do is stab each other in the back, be corrupt, be petty, seek out differeneces rather than similarities. We then have this misgotten belief that freedom equates to the right to be indisciplined. As a nation we have yet to display the maturity that such a large democracy needs. Look at China - they have realised that a democratic system will not work - so they force discipline inorder to ge tthe nation organised, economically powerful and vibrant. The average person does not give a toss as to whether he has freedom or not - his first goal is to be economically sound. China is achieveing that. So too is India - there is no denying that. But I am ashamed at how much slower the pace is Vs China. And the only reason for the differing pace of progress is discipline, unity and national pride. In the global arena China is undeniably a far more significant force than India and that is a shame. From infrastructure, to oil, to manufacturing and even into arenas like the Olympics. A simple question to you - when do you think India will be given the opportunity to host the Summer Olympics? That is another test of teh world's confidence in our organisational and project networking skiils. And thr age old question of when we will win more than 1 medal. Guess how many China will win in 2008? Even the last stronghold of Indians - the software industry - will slowly be taken over by the Chinese. They realised a long time ago that we Indians were more capable than them in two fields - software and knowledge of English and they have worked over the last 2 decades to correct that and we can now see them beginning to reap the benefits. In the meantime we will sit and beat our chests about how great we are, whilst our politicians continue to loot our country. Frankly I would much rather have the British plunder our nation than our own people.
Yes, there are more than 1 billion of us alive, most of us are kicking whilst 40% remain below poverty. It is sad that we cannot become the catalytic force that we could be.
Each of us has to do somethoing about that ...and not let it convenienetly remain a question that we leave for 'someone else' to answer.
With the above paragraph (which I frankly did not have the patience to read all), I don't think you really have the right to ask your original question when read with the below:
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
( we have tones of NRIs who merely bring India down because it is trendy to do so when you live abroad).
The reason why I did not have the patience to read the whole para, and most of other posts you have made is that your first 2-3 posts do not seem to speak anything good about India - and while India might have lots of shortcomings, it definitely has tons of good things to talk about too......but your post contains only the ones which we would like to improve upon. And that makes me sick!
Secondly, have you been able to ever find a true American, Italian, Canadian, Brit ...whatever who does not do ANYTHING that you have written for India? How close have you been to them? --- closer than you have been to Indians? If not, you do not know their colours truely, since they wouldn't expose themselves to you.
Chandresh
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
One who does not feel the need to break a law by or do something illegal in order to prove how smart he is.
My impression - as an Indian origin guy, is that most Canadians (and Americans, and Italians, and Mexicans), and perhaps more than Indians as a percentage, do that too (and finally not to be left behind in everything here, I am trying to follow those traits too).
Chandresh
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
YOu make a few very valid points - when fighting for freedom a common cause united us - so we know we are capable of unity - then why can we not sustain that. During peace times all we can do is stab each other in the back, be corrupt, be petty, seek out differeneces rather than similarities. We then have this misgotten belief that freedom equates to the right to be indisciplined. As a nation we have yet to display the maturity that such a large democracy needs. Look at China - they have realised that a democratic system will not work - so they force discipline inorder to ge tthe nation organised, economically powerful and vibrant. The average person does not give a toss as to whether he has freedom or not - his first goal is to be economically sound. China is achieveing that. So too is India - there is no denying that. But I am ashamed at how much slower the pace is Vs China. And the only reason for the differing pace of progress is discipline, unity and national pride. In the global arena China is undeniably a far more significant force than India and that is a shame. From infrastructure, to oil, to manufacturing and even into arenas like the Olympics. A simple question to you - when do you think India will be given the opportunity to host the Summer Olympics? That is another test of teh world's confidence in our organisational and project networking skiils. And thr age old question of when we will win more than 1 medal. Guess how many China will win in 2008? Even the last stronghold of Indians - the software industry - will slowly be taken over by the Chinese. They realised a long time ago that we Indians were more capable than them in two fields - software and knowledge of English and they have worked over the last 2 decades to correct that and we can now see them beginning to reap the benefits. In the meantime we will sit and beat our chests about how great we are, whilst our politicians continue to loot our country. Frankly I would much rather have the British plunder our nation than our own people.
Yes, there are more than 1 billion of us alive, most of us are kicking whilst 40% remain below poverty. It is sad that we cannot become the catalytic force that we could be.
Each of us has to do somethoing about that ...and not let it convenienetly remain a question that we leave for 'someone else' to answer.
With the above paragraph (which I frankly did not have the patience to read all), I don't think you really have the right to ask your original question when read with the below:
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
( we have tones of NRIs who merely bring India down because it is trendy to do so when you live abroad).
The reason why I did not have the patience to read the whole para, and most of other posts you have made is that your first 2-3 posts do not seem to speak anything good about India - and while India might have lots of shortcomings, it definitely has tons of good things to talk about too......but your post contains only the ones which we would like to improve upon. And that makes me sick!
Secondly, have you been able to ever find a true American, Italian, Canadian, Brit ...whatever who does not do ANYTHING that you have written for India? How close have you been to them? --- closer than you have been to Indians? If not, you do not know their colours truely, since they wouldn't expose themselves to you.
Chandresh
You should resist from jumping to conclusions or allowing others including myself to make you sick if you do not have even the time or the inclination - or as you say - patience) to read everything I have to say in the first place.
Just because I choose to focus on the areas where Indians need to improve does not in any way suggest that I am less patriotic than others who choose only to look at the positive traits. It is only when one cares enough does one look at areas where improvement is possible. You obvioulsly have not read the many statements that I have made indicating how frustrated I am to see India not being able to reach its true potential - does not that suggest to a person like you that I believe in the country in the first place? Why would one bother if I beleived this is the best that India could achieve? It is unfortunate that there are many like yourself who believe that loyalty is about blind support - an educated mind or one with even half a brain will always question, always seeks avenues to improve...and that is what I seek to do.
Just becuase there may not be any genuine Americnas or Italians etc...why does that make it okay for there not to be any true Indians? And why cannot one be close to people from other nationalities too. Is it a rule that one has to be closest to someone from your own land?
Sorry to have taken up too much of your time. But then again...why am I being sorry - you will not read everything I have to say in any case - right?
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Big B
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
One who does not feel the need to break a law by or do something illegal in order to prove how smart he is.
My impression - as an Indian origin guy, is that most Canadians (and Americans, and Italians, and Mexicans), and perhaps more than Indians as a percentage, do that too (and finally not to be left behind in everything here, I am trying to follow those traits too).
Chandresh
Brilliant...please continue to copy the worst in others. This will ensure that you are neither original nor honest. Good Luck.
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Big B
Quote:
Orginally posted by BlueLobster
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
I am looking for "Indians" only because I have only found a precious few and hope that there are more around. I am fortunate to have friends from my school and college days as well as friends from across the globe - I have gained immensely from the diversity of my freindships as it has taught me to be more tolerant, accepting of differences and also shown me that there is always something we can learn from another - if we only give ourselves the chance to do so.
I'm curious though, what was different about those precious few that led you to believe they're true Indians? Just trying to understand what your definition of being a true Indian is, to me its extremely complex to define.
I did not try and make the issue or te definition very complex. I believe most things in life can be broken down into simple parts...so too this one. So here is my definition...which you are most free to disagree with....hopefully it does not make you sick like Chandresh!!!!....
They have never felt the need to establish or strengthen the relationship based on commonlaities related to language, caste, state, or religion. An equation was struck based on common interests....either a game or an author or a set of films or a leader et al....and then when we understood tat we have tons to talk about, discuss, debate, argue and have fun with...we became and stayed friends. What I am saying is..in my book a true Indian is one who does not see himslef first as a Bengali, or a Marwari or a Muslim or a Hindu or a Brahmin first...but as a person with values, viewpoints, a thinking brain, the openness to accept differing opinions and knows how to handle them...and does not have to resort to insignificant and petty similarities that were accidents of birth to gain acceptance or accept others.
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Big B
