Val,

Thanks for your reply.

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Orginally posted by Val

in fact I am happy after coming here for a reason if you know ur priorities life can be pretty good here offcourse with the ME money !!!.

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Orginally posted by Val

Considering the fact that you are happy there and you want your children to educate here .( a peculiar trend from ME people) I would suggest.

1. Buy a house . with 35 % down. Donot rent

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Orginally posted by Val
Nothing comes without sacrifices specially for 1st generation of immigrants.

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Erra,

Various people have given you advice and you should be able to filter out the matters that relate more to your own desires and situation. I would say that Mishtar India has put forward some very valid reasons and courses of action - and I would not contracdict any. However, he is still young and his experiences are limited in some manner to which I can only add:

1. While it is very true that it is difficult for a typical Indian housewife to survive well without her husband here - and one should only take a step of leaving the wife and children here in Canada only if he is confident that the wife will be able to handle things herself.

However, the flip side is something much more dangerous than one can imagine. Believe it or not, I have met people who did this and now regret this (not only between Canada and ME but any two countries - like Indonesia and India too, or US and Canada too). What happens is that in such situations, both the husband and wife have to learn to do so many things independently which they were used to doing together, or through an unwritten rule, the duties were divided (say cooking and car repair for example). Gradually, that independence becomes a habit, and in a year or two, both the husband and wife start drifting apart in more ways than one. Few examples could be:

a) the husband starts spending more time in office since he is not too keen on going back home early while wife starts spending more time in window shopping (if she is not working) or gets more career oriented, if she takes up a job just to pass her time, rather than for monetary needs.

b) the husband developes a new set of friends within his own old place, because whatever said and done, he cannot spend more time with other families as he used to, since a bachelor and a family will never gel as well as two full families (since they have common things to discuss - children and their education and their daily experiences etc etc). Similarly, the wife sitting in Canada develops her set of new friends here just because she need them socially. And so when husband visits wife or the wife visits husband, they cannot relate well to the spouse's friends since the friendship has a different base - basically lonliness on both spouses parts. You might say this does not happen, but if you think deeply, you will realise it does - just like there is a difference in independent and combined relationships/friendships with friends before marriage and after marriage.

c) as rightly said by MI, for the first few months or say a year, the children miss their dad, but soon get USED TO living without him, and you will note that the meetings of every 3-4 months becomes different gradually and that becomes a pain for both the children and father. The father expects the children to spend more time with him when he is with the family on a one week holiday, while children have developed their own time table and friends which they cannot break for 7 days just because the father is in town. That brings in unnecessary clashes and heartburns.

d) being independend becomes the main cause of differences both for the husband and wife. Each starts doing things in his own way and gets used to it, so when they start living together again, or even during those small holidays when they are together, they do not like any interference in their way of doing things. For example, the husband might want to keep things in the bedroom in one way, and the wife says that well since he is there only for 7 days, why should the position of furniture or lamp or any other thing be changed. Believe it or not, it even becomes a habit of sleeping alone in the bed and so if for 7 days you want to sleep in the same bed, you cannot have as good a sleep as you would have if each had a bed of his/her own. Those small things slowly grow into irritational behaviour.

There are hundreds of things which might seem insignificant or impossible, but gradually tend to become habits and then it leads to complications in personal relationships.

And yes, one thing - believe it or not, till children go to university, there is no stage in their lives that one can afford to be away from them. Each stage, from infancy to toddlers, to primary school to teens, are different, and whatever you miss as a family together is missed FOR EVER and no money or career growth can bring it back.

Coming to another topic, - there are both pros and cons of sending children to Canadian high schools. Yes, it is easier for them to understand the Canadian culture if they do high school here, but then it is equally easier for them to forget the own Indian culture which parents would like them to adopt and continue with. Similarly, yes it is easier to understand the education system of Canada if they do the schooling here, but at the same time, those children who come to Canada for undergrad or post grad studies tend to perform better or get better grades than their Canadian counterparts. So whatever stage they come in, they will be able to adapt the culture here much sooner than we adults.

In the end, let me tell you - having lived in Singapore for 16 years on expat basis (same like the middle east), when I came to Canada even with a frame of mind to accept low pay labour jobs and still have been having difficulties in coping up with things here - you who acknowledges that you cannot come here with that frame of mind, might face much more problems here. Well, you could get a great job from the very start, but that does not mean that you will definitely start with a great job - and if unluckily you don't then it will be very difficult for you to forgive yourself. Even with a million dollars in your bank, you will feel sorry for spending days after days getting rejection from employers and sitting home just watching TV.

But as Mishtar India says, if you want to do it, do it sooner than later, and do it with your family. Do not miss out on the joys of settling into a new place as a family and having fun together. (As an example, if you do not come together, but you come after 3 years and want to visit the CN Tower, your family might complain that they have been there 7 times in three years and are not interested in going again - so could you go there on your own??? How would you feel at that moment???)

Chandresh

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Chandresh

Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!

There are so many students who go to study to US, Australia, Canada, UK after graduation from India or their home country. They do very well & adjust better to the Western culture because they have had some experience of college life & are mature enough to take their decisions & most of them know the difference between good & bad.

The difference might be the cost of study, I guess. I hear there are good colleges coming up in the Middle East especially Dubai.

As Mishtar India & Chandresh have rightly pointed out, you need to consider those points.

I would recommend either coming together or maybe kids can come here to study at a later date for their graduate or post-graduate studies.

Thanks & regards.

Rajan.

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Let's make India a better place !

4 years separation does not change your attitudes towards your spouse when you are married for 15 etc. years. This is the time to support your husband and adjust to the new surroundings. The institution of marriage is not just one sided and we know that both the husband and wife need to have a strong sense of trust within them and believe that they can overcome a separation (if and when required) very successfully.

I know many families here in the ME itself where the wife has to return back to her country once the children complete their HSC studies. Its only in Dubai they have colleges where they can continue education, but in other parts of ME we do not have colleges and you will see the wife returning back to the home country for three to four years if they don’t want to keep their kids alone. One parent has to sacrifice and return, what will you call this kind of separation?

Also several families have long distance marriages as husband is working abroad and wife remains back serving the husbands parents / house etc. What will you call this marriage?

We know that a family also needs to be together but sometimes the circumstances do not allow it. You can call it trust in marriage and whatever you wish to call it. But I know that I have the strength to stand by my husband when the situation and circumstances call for it. By the way have you heard of the saying ‘distances make the hearts grow fonder’ (and re-ignite a sense of romance).
Go for it erra.

Chandresh, rajand, IceCream

Thanks for your replies.

I appreciate in-depth analysis of family relationships and problems associated with separation by Chandresh and Mishtar_India.

IceCream covered the stuff in her posting, I wanted to convey. I fully support her views in the posting. We need to compromise.

Why I am thinking to keep my family alone in Canada? For schooling, based on the posts I read in this forum. If schooling in Canada is not so important for University education, I do not have any plan to keep my family alone in Canada.

I personally do not like to strain my family bondage just to get passport or any other benefits in Canada.

I paste some of the postings by senior Desis, supporting the importance of schooling in Canada.



1). Posted by PTM 29-08-05

http://www.canadiandesi.com/read.php?TID=9797

originally written by CHANDRESH

I do not agree with the concept many Indians have about schooling in Canada. In my view there is a difference between education and schooling (or academic studies). What we are taught in schools in India is pure theory - let's be frank, how many of us actually understand the practical and real aspects of that theory that we are taught?

Four years ago, my son came to me and put forward a question:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Yes, initially I was shocked when I saw my daughter doing simple addition in Math class in grade 5/6/7. But the confidence that I have seen in my kids from educational point of view as well as social interactions in far better than what they could have got in Indian style of schooling.

There can be many such examples where I feel and can prove why Canadian education is better but I hope the above should suffice.




2). Posted by Margo on 09-12-04

http://www.canadiandesi.com/read.php?TID=5176&page=3

Peacock 1:
Adjusting to high school is not easy. Actually, academically, Indian children would be able to cope; the difficult part is the cultural change and the approach to studies. The son of one of our friends managed to get into Grade 12 after doing Grade 11 in India, but that one year was really a traumatic change for him and eventually he had to settle for Humanities/Arts at University even though he was quite a brilliant Science student in India. I feel it may be a good thing for children to do at least 2 years in high school before going to University, so that they get sufficient time to digest the culture and the approach effectively during these impressionable years.



3). Posted by HOPE on 24-08-05

http://www.canadiandesi.com/read.php?TID=9675&page=1#55036

If your final destination is Canada, I would say, bring your children to Canada for high school. That will prepare them for the undergraduate studies well. I have put 2 kids in High School in the US. Elder one joined 12th Grade. But, it was hard. Found it difficult to adjust a lot in a new environment. Had to write TOEFL, had to prepare for SAT within months, adjust to cultural differences, new country, etc, etc. But managed very well. The second one started 9th. And has been doing really good too. Was able to understand the system well and make decisions as to what to do further in College.
Again, it depends on your financial situation. But, the best thing, for the kids, will be to study the entire high school here.
Good luck!
PS: Once they are 16 they can work too to support their education.



For me, first step is to determine whether schooling in Canada is essential for success in university studies? I can not determine this on my own because I do not have any idea about Canadian schooling. I am totally dependent on the opinions of forum members.

If schooling is not important, we all move together to Canada permanently. If it is important, I have to compare the troubles my family has to face in Canada to stay alone with the money I save by continuing my job in M.E.

If I decide to keep my family alone there and I see the kind of problems fore seen by Chandresh, I can move any time to Canada permanently by resigning to my Job in M.E.

I welcome suggestions from forum members, particularly from members who are already in above situation.

erra

I will agree that if the children are to SETTLE DOWN in Canada it is better to send them here for high school. There are many ways to mitigate the impact of parental separation. The schools here have a two week break for Christmas , a March break and a 2 month summer vacation when the wife and kids can fly back to Dubai. And then there is internet and video conferencing. The husband can possibly negotiate a one/two month vacation in the beginning to help the family settle down. A relative (parents of the wife , siblings ) could come over here and help in the transition. There is also a category of immigration called "Live-in caregiver" which can be used to get a trusted servant from India to Canada. Don't make the mistake of leaving the job over there because of these issues.

Coming back to Erra's questions.

"Whether there are some works like dealing with govt offices, school issues, emegencies, health problems, getting some repairs fixed in home etc that a house wife can not manage herself. I can keep visiting them once in a four months for a couple of weeks and can attend problems that can be postponed till my visit."

If your wife speaks / reads / writes English there is absolutely no issue. Even if she doesn't , the kids can help. There is a bit of running around to do in the first couple of weeks (SIN , Driver's license , school admission ) , you could probably complete them before you leave for the middle East. OHIP (health insurance ) will NOT be available for 3 months. Your wife should apply after 3 months. If you have ANY friends over here they could probably help out too.

The only problem will be EMERGENCY. Will your wife be capable of handling a health emergency? What happens if your wife becomes sick or breaks a bone? Can your kids handle it until you arrive? Do you have any CLOSE friends over here who can help 24/7 when that occurs?

Condos for 300K are plentiful in the Yonge/Finch , Yonge/Sheppard area in TO. Excellent Public transit. One of the best schools in Ontario is in this area (Earl Haig). Do an internet search.

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Orginally posted by erra

I am earning C$6000 pm tax free in M.E. in a senior position with good Job satisfcation on technical side atleast. I believe this salary is above the average a person with Engineering background can earn in middle east. My present job is almost guaranteed for next four years i.e. till the time I have to decide whether to loose PR or move to Canada. Leaving such a job for uncertain future is very diffucult decision, I have to make.


- Erra

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